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Goodbye Axle Wrap Mod

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Old 02-18-2013, 04:43 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoDell View Post
I typed single... meaning... only one

Not a single bar (tube)

yes I suppose a "A" frame could still be considered a ladder bar
so that was a poor choice in wording on my part.

that is why I put the picture up.
tho' maybe not a perfect example... it brings it closer.
Ah I gotcha now...yeah, A-frame/ladder are often used interchangeably.

Just FYI, your picture is not showing up for the rest of us.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Ah I gotcha now...yeah, A-frame/ladder are often used interchangeably.

Just FYI, your picture is not showing up for the rest of us.
oh... didn't realize.

how 'bout now ?

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Old 02-18-2013, 02:15 PM   #203
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jandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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That got it. Here's mine:

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Old 02-18-2013, 03:28 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
That got it. Here's mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoDell View Post
oh... didn't realize.

how 'bout now ?

Wouldnt this limit down travel?
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:47 PM   #205
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jandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
Wouldnt this limit down travel?
Mine won't. I can't see the shackle setup on Dell's example to give it a yes or no. There needs to be a heim, creeper, uniball, or some kind of spherical bearing in there to allow the axle to articulate without binding.

Here's the attachment:

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Old 02-18-2013, 04:15 PM   #206
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you need to re-enforce that cross member, OEM is not built to handle that much force
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:51 PM   #207
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jandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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No you don't. It's not that much force.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:13 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
Wouldnt this limit down travel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Mine won't. I can't see the shackle setup on Dell's example to give it a yes or no. There needs to be a heim, creeper, uniball, or some kind of spherical bearing in there to allow the axle to articulate without binding.

Here's the attachment:

yeah the picture I posted is an inferior example.
that forward shackle/bushing thang looks no bueno.

yours is superior in design and a much better example
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:28 PM   #209
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Bet those don't cost only $15 though
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:42 AM   #210
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jandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shedjandrews is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedoJosh View Post
Bet those don't cost only $15 though
I used spring clips a bit before I got the bar. They help...for a bit. They wear your leafs out quicker (due to creating a cyclic flexion point in the leafs) and eventually the floppy point just moves to where the clamp is, and the problem re-emerges.

Over the life of the truck, I'll bet the traction bar costs less, because I'm sure it'll save me at least one leaf spring replacement. And they (traction bars) aren't as expensive as you might think.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:49 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Mine won't. I can't see the shackle setup on Dell's example to give it a yes or no. There needs to be a heim, creeper, uniball, or some kind of spherical bearing in there to allow the axle to articulate without binding.

Here's the attachment:

I got that, but what about the length diff as the axel articluates. The drive shaft has a slip joint to accomodate, does the traction bar?

Edit, Nvmd, I see it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:00 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
No you don't. It's not that much force.
maybe on your 09 that cross member is stronger...on my 97 that cross member looks WAY to thin and has way too many holes in it for me to trust it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:24 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang123 View Post
maybe on your 09 that cross member is stronger...on my 97 that cross member looks WAY to thin and has way too many holes in it for me to trust it.
All its resisting is whatever amount of tractive force allows the truck to move. In neutral, an able human being can push one of these trucks by hand. Unless you can bend the crossmember by hand, you really don't have to worry about it. Traction bars don't typically resist great forces, its just in stock form, there's nothing there to resist that force at all. Axle wrap wouldnt be a problem but for the possibility of binding u joints, ring and pinion deflection, and wheel hop. Wheel hop especially can be very damaging to driveline components...its basically like hitting the rear axle with a giant impact hammer. With a traction bar, the wheels either break loose and spin on the ground or the vehicle moves. There's no hop to wreck your gears .

That crossmember is made of thin steel, but its c channel with rolled lips. You might be surprised how much strength that adds.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:15 PM   #214
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...Back to the axle rap U bolt mod, what would the advantages and disadvantages be of installing the U bolt around the 2 leafs and the overload leaf instead of just around the 2 leafs?
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
All its resisting is whatever amount of tractive force allows the truck to move. In neutral, an able human being can push one of these trucks by hand. Unless you can bend the crossmember by hand, you really don't have to worry about it. Traction bars don't typically resist great forces, its just in stock form, there's nothing there to resist that force at all. Axle wrap wouldnt be a problem but for the possibility of binding u joints, ring and pinion deflection, and wheel hop. Wheel hop especially can be very damaging to driveline components...its basically like hitting the rear axle with a giant impact hammer. With a traction bar, the wheels either break loose and spin on the ground or the vehicle moves. There's no hop to wreck your gears .

That cross member is made of thin steel, but its c channel with rolled lips. You might be surprised how much strength that adds.
Im not talking about under normal driving conditions, im talking about on the trail flex, when the trac bars heim joints max out and your suspension still has room for more flex all of that force is being transferred and held in that traction bar, which is now in a sense holding "up" the weight of your rear axle or the force of the leaf springs and gravity attempting to flex the axle (really bad description but the best one i can think of at the moment) this flex i am worried will tweak and twist your cross member.

My cross member does not have rolled lips but straight up holes like you'd make with a hole saw. So +1 to you


Quote:
Originally Posted by pickuptruckguy View Post
...Back to the axle rap U bolt mod, what would the advantages and disadvantages be of installing the U bolt around the 2 leafs and the overload leaf instead of just around the 2 leafs?
if you clamped the overload to the rest of the springs i imagine it would stiffin the hell out of your ride considering the overload bar is so thick and is only there to support the leaf springs when LARGE amounts of weight are in the bed/being towed
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #216
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Ok, so picked up the u-bolt pack yesterday.



So I installed them about a fist length from the axle mount on each side. Tightened them down a pretty decent amount

Passenger side


Driver side


Problem is, it feels like my truck is more stiff/bouncy on bumps. Did I put them in the right place, or maybe tighten them too much?
I didn't have any problems when stopping like most complain of, but it did feel like when I would go over bumps, usually in the lower speed acceleration, my rear end would bounce around, almost like it was skipping. Which is the reason I installed these.
Haven't hit many big bumps to see if that bump is still there.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:49 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickuptruckguy View Post
...Back to the axle rap U bolt mod, what would the advantages and disadvantages be of installing the U bolt around the 2 leafs and the overload leaf instead of just around the 2 leafs?
Stiffer ride, more resistance to wrap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang123 View Post
Im not talking about under normal driving conditions, im talking about on the trail flex, when the trac bars heim joints max out and your suspension still has room for more flex all of that force is being transferred and held in that traction bar, which is now in a sense holding "up" the weight of your rear axle or the force of the leaf springs and gravity attempting to flex the axle (really bad description but the best one i can think of at the moment) this flex i am worried will tweak and twist your cross member.
If the trac bar is designed properly, that should never happen. Mine doesn't bind at all at full suspension travel. The misalignment spacers on the heim joint allow for 34 degrees of articulation. That's...a lot. With my shackle flip and relocation shock mounts plus 15in travel shocks, my rear axle flexes a little over 20 degrees. To get over 30 on these trucks you're going to have to seriously re-engineer the rear end, probably with a coil-link suspension, and remove the bed.



You can see here the delta between frame and axle is nowhere close to 30 degrees...I'm not at full flex in this picture (close, but not quite) so this is probably somewhere in the high teens in terms of angle...



If a trac bar binds at full flex, it was mocked or installed wrong, or both. It should never carry the weight of the vehicle, just locate the axle within the rotational plane of the wheels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedoJosh View Post
So I installed them about a fist length from the axle mount on each side. Tightened them down a pretty decent amount

Problem is, it feels like my truck is more stiff/bouncy on bumps. Did I put them in the right place, or maybe tighten them too much?
I didn't have any problems when stopping like most complain of, but it did feel like when I would go over bumps, usually in the lower speed acceleration, my rear end would bounce around, almost like it was skipping. Which is the reason I installed these.
Haven't hit many big bumps to see if that bump is still there.

Clamping the springs effectively combines all the leafs into one in the area behind the clamp. This effectively stiffens spring rate in that area. That's why it decreases axle wrap, but yes, it will also result in a rougher ride.

Including the overload leaf will also worsen this issue. It's made for extremely heavy loads and has an extremely stiff rate.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:49 PM   #218
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Would an AAL fix the springs back to have an arch and solve axle wrap?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #219
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:44 PM   #220
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So looking at my rear leafs today, they are pretty flat across. Should they have a bit of upward bow (U shape) without any additional load? Wondering if my leafs are worn out and I should just replace them before trying any clamp fixes. Also, what springs should I replace them with if need be? It is a 03 TRD DC Prerunner.
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