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Goodbye Axle Wrap Mod

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Old 08-17-2010, 04:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywen View Post
the problem with the spring is that the way in which we mount it, it will travel forward and push into the front bushing. The flimsy bracket on the opposite end of the u bolts will eventually twist and bend and break.
That bracket isn't useful for anything but keeping the helper from twisting sideways (which actually is kinda important when you think about it). It should not be clamped tightly around the spring pack at all; that's why you capture the bracket between the jam nuts to keep it's bolt from rattling around.

If it's not tight around the pack then there's no reason the spring should travel, assuming the U-clamp is placed and torqued correctly.
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:48 AM   #42
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I did this on my 03 and it works! My issue is the front of the bottom spring touches the helper spring and makes a clunking sound. After reading this thread, I'm going to pull the springs, add a leaf and install u bolts. nice write up.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendubya View Post
I did this on my 03 and it works! My issue is the front of the bottom spring touches the helper spring and makes a clunking sound. After reading this thread, I'm going to pull the springs, add a leaf and install u bolts. nice write up.
My drivers side is so worn out and broken down that they are much closer to the helper spring then the passenger side is. Someone referred to it earlier as the infamous "taco lean"!

This is only further proof that this system is no more than a Band-Aid until we can actually drop some cash on new suspension components, but its a Band-Aid that serves its purpose. I read earlier on TW that someone mentioned once the springs have such a severe negative arc in them (Such as mine from the pics, and the sound of yours if they droop so badly that they touch the helper spring.) it's pretty much too late for an AAL...You may want to keep you eyes peel for that one, but If it track it down today I'll PM you with the info.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDigTulsa View Post
My drivers side is so worn out and broken down that they are much closer to the helper spring then the passenger side is. Someone referred to it earlier as the infamous "taco lean"!

This is only further proof that this system is no more than a Band-Aid until we can actually drop some cash on new suspension components, but its a Band-Aid that serves its purpose. I read earlier on TW that someone mentioned once the springs have such a severe negative arc in them (Such as mine from the pics, and the sound of yours if they droop so badly that they touch the helper spring.) it's pretty much too late for an AAL...You may want to keep you eyes peel for that one, but If it track it down today I'll PM you with the info.
I can attest to this. After a few months, the wrap is slowly creeping in, although still much better than without the u-bolts. However, it is not like tight it was on day one.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:40 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDigTulsa View Post
My drivers side is so worn out and broken down that they are much closer to the helper spring then the passenger side is. ....
Instead of springing for all new components (pun intended) can you have the existing leaf packs re-arched? Does that work out well?

If you're looking for something a LOT better than OE, that's different of course!
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:46 AM   #46
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I've had the backwards helpers on for 3 days and although this config worked as stated, it worried me on a few points...the lower leafs banging on the helpers, the possibility that I may compromise some other rear suspension component by using them and that because of the weight I carry (500Lbs of tools, all the time) I still needed additional rear support. This morning I went to Service Spring in Northlakle IL and added another leaf to each side. It seems to have taken care of the body roll, axle wrap, etc...$300.00/two hours no more problem. Now for some bilsteins.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:58 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywen View Post
the problem with the spring is that the way in which we mount it, it will travel forward and push into the front bushing. The flimsy bracket on the opposite end of the u bolts will eventually twist and bend and break.

I noted this almost immediately. One really has to torque the u bolt nuts down or the helper will move.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendubya View Post
I noted this almost immediately. One really has to torque the u bolt nuts down or the helper will move.
Just remove the helper spring and leave the u-bolt on.. the spring does nothing, it's only held down at one end so it doesn't help with the leaf pack arcing at all.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:24 PM   #49
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i did the leaf spring clamp mod months ago that ywen brought up. it worked great for me,took away what wrap i had left. i didnt buy it though i just made a set up, took like a hour to do thats with installing it. i had the clamps on front and back but then took the ones off the back cause it was just a little to stiff.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:56 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by da0023 View Post
I picked up some u-bolts at AutoZone on my way home from work for 14.99, just got them installed about 15 mins ago. I'll take it for a test drive after I eat supper and post the results. Fingers Crossed.
Drove it to and from work today and it seemed to solve the problem and I was coming to hard stops on purpose. I plan on re-checking the tightness later this week. Finally, a fix for the annoying axle warp, for only 14.99. Man I love tacomaworld
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:20 PM   #51
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:21 PM   #52
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I just went to Napa auto parts to buy the spring helper, and the guys working were telling me this is a terrible idea and has nothing to do with the thump...But IM STILL DOING IT!!! haha
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #53
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OP, et al., please explain how the mod stops this...[this is a real question; not a troll post]...

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Old 08-17-2010, 08:16 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeith747 View Post
OP, et al., please explain how the mod stops this...[this is a real question; not a troll post]...

Let me do my best to break this down, but I will be the first to admit that this is not coming from the fingers of a mechanic. I have done ample research, but I'm always open to others chiming in.

Excellent photo, I will attempt to refer to this as the basis of my description. The picture you have provided is based off off one (1) axle. Keep in mind that our trucks do not deliver equal power to each of the rear wheels at the time of acceleration, much like most other trucks that apply this U-Bolt/Spring Helper setup to their trucks. When braking our trucks springs also react differently depending on a multitude of factors. These variables cause this motion you have provided in the diagram to not only occur, but occur differently with each of our two sets of springs.

The Leaf Spring Helper, when used in its intended form adds to the strength, or support, of your existing springs and allows for an increase in load carrying capacity while also minimizing body roll and sway when towing heavy loads. The only difference in this application is the placement of the U-Bolts and/or Helper Spring in front of the Axle. Their placement provides rigidity to help prevent "wrap" or "twist" that occurs in the springs during acceleration or deceleration. This motion is also going to naturally transfer and occur in your U-Joint and axle, and be felt within your truck with the "thud".

This "wrapping" or "twisting" is not pictured in your diagram, but imagine being really, really, really ridiculously good looking, and very strong, and grabbing each end of the pictured leaf springs with your left and right hand. Turn one hand towards you, and the other away from you and you will see it twist, ending up almost like a Twizzler. Now take that same set of leaf springs, imagine your equally as strong, and place the U-Bolt and Plate right in the center of the set this time. According to the laws of physics, and the basic knowledge of leverage and force you realize that you have just shortened the distance between the two points that are allowed to "twist" or "wrap"....making it much more difficult to occur.

Think of the old "fold a piece of paper 12 times" game. The smaller the distance between the ends of the folds, the more force that is required to bend the paper over.

I was doing some research on a Hellwig Rear Sway Bar earlier, and ran across their branded Leaf Spring Helpers. Most of us are aware of their company, and the quality of their products, and they actually offer Leaf Spring Helpers with U-Bolts on each end. Their kit might actually be the usable middle ground between the divided parties on this subject, but then again, this project is easily completed on a budget....And their kit sells for about $56.00 bucks on Amazon. At least you would have a Hellwig product on your truck instead of rocking the DynaChrome. They have even gone so far as to already provide you with black components!!

Hellwig EZ-550
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:35 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeith747 View Post
OP, et al., please explain how the mod stops this...[this is a real question; not a troll post]...

First, imagine the pic above is from the driver's side and the front of the truck is to the left...

Then imagine a bar of steel running just underneath the leaf pack from the center of the axle to the shackle/mount to the left. As the axle tries to rotate, the bar is put in compression and doesn't let it rotate.

This is an over simplification because obviously the bar(helper) doesn't clamp to the center of the axle but to the leaf pack: but that essentially lengthens the bar achieving the same purpose (see below, the clamp fix explanation shows why). That's my idea of how the helper spring works.

The clamp fix (and clamp part of the helper fix) works a little different but the picture above doesn't help for this explanation. In our leaf pack there's a really thick overload spring on the bottom that actually arcs down from the leafs above: it doesn't come into effect until the load is so heavy leafs above sag onto it. The clamps tighten the whole pack up really tight to that overload so instead of a bunch of individual leafs and an overload that's doing nothing it's like a solid bar of metal under the axle for some distance from the axle. It basically changes the spring rate making it much stronger earlier in it's travel.

The other effect is harder to see since the picture above isn't accurate to illustrate what really happens. As the axle torques the rear leafs don't follow the contour of the upper leaf, as shown above. In reality: they open up, the bottom leafs are taken completely out of the spring action leaving only the upper leaf to resist torsion. A clamp in the rear makes the entire leaf pack and overload like a solid bar of steel up to the clamp.

The much stronger spring resists bending due to torsional loads from the axle but there's a price: unloaded ride comfort is somewhat to severely compromised depending on whether you use a two or four clamp solution and how far from the axle you place the clamps. In my opinion, the helper spring solution will compromise ride less for the same amount of wrap (torsional) control. But that would be hard to prove without some comparison tests...and is probably judgmental mostly anyway!
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:29 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeith747 View Post
OP, et al., please explain how the mod stops this...[this is a real question; not a troll post]...


that picture is not showing you what exactly is happening. when you brake, the leafs fan out and separate. looking at that illustration, it would have you believe the springs never separate.

all the clamps are doing are holding the springs together where they won't separate as much when you brake.


go watch a few trucks take off from a stop light and pay attention to what the springs are doing. ...you'll see what i'm talking about.
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh1 View Post
In my opinion, the helper spring solution will compromise ride less for the same amount of wrap (torsional) control. But that would be hard to prove without some comparison tests...and is probably judgmental mostly anyway!
Your breakdown on the above diagram was excellent, I like where your head is at. I must say that I really enjoy how a box of parts from Advance Auto and a few pictures of it's installation has opened up so much discussion. This is the reason I joined TW, to learn from others while we learn about out Tacoma's.

In regards to the comparison tests you speak of....I think you already know where I'm going with this one.....Go drop $15.00 on the U-Bolt kit and throw them on there!

Find out about their return policy first, and if you don't like them on, then take them back. Only you know how your truck drives, and you would be the best at telling if it helps or hurts your ride and wrap. Keep in mind my 1st Gen is about 5 years older than your 2nd Gen, and as a daily driver thats roughly 1,800 more opportunities to wear out my leaf springs, and the overload spring. But for the low price of three Five Dollar bills, I would say it is worth a shot for you.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:32 AM   #58
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Just got back from the lake, towing around 800 lb + fully loaded with camp gear, I have a 3" lift and Icon satge II with the aal rear, PROCOMP 7089 and 285's. Still get the AW when loaded. and starting to feel it when not loaded/towing (but not as bad).

Just went to AZ for the $14.99 U bolts. = Imediate fix. A question: is there a best/ideal distance from the u-bolt axle bracket to mount from. Im about 4" from it. There is more room to start out farther on the overload spring. Will this cause problems or maybe help and "activating" the overload spring when Im towing/loaded earlier? Almost like a helper spring or will it just make my ride more stiff?
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:37 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDigTulsa View Post
... I must say that I really enjoy how a box of parts from Advance Auto and a few pictures of it's installation has opened up so much discussion...
Purely out of curiosity I did some googling and found out installing the helper spring like this is kinda of a poor-man's 'slapper bar'.

http://www.competitionengineering.co...s/chassis2.asp

Taco.Tim: NOW I understand what you meant when you said it's like a traction bar!
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:59 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicP View Post
Just went to AZ for the $14.99 U bolts. = Imediate fix. A question: is there a best/ideal distance from the u-bolt axle bracket to mount from. Im about 4" from it. There is more room to start out farther on the overload spring. Will this cause problems or maybe help and "activating" the overload spring when Im towing/loaded earlier? Almost like a helper spring or will it just make my ride more stiff?
This is an excellent question for Ywen since he was the first one to bring up the actual removal of the Leaf Spring Helper and just running the U-Bolts and bracket. That's what he's running on his truck, and said it looks the same as my set up but with out the Helper bar. You may want to see if you can snag some pics or insight from him since he has more familiarity with the placement of that set-up.

I talked with Marco at DSM yesterday about the Icon kit for my truck as well, but after finding the Hellwig Helper Springs last night that attach with two sets of U-Bolts per helper (As opposed to the DynaChrome with one set) I'm looking into ordering those as well, and may even run them with the Icon AAL.
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