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Old 09-10-2010, 10:33 PM   #41
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Yes my abs is off when locker is engaged! And with gray wire mod I can run locker in 2wd 4hi and 4lo... a major reason to why I bought 1st gen not 2nd gen as well as a few other reasons.

Ha I guess using an ultragauge would stop the abs all together...lol.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:48 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiratus View Post
"The propeller shaft & wheels are free even when the transmission is set to "P" as long as the shift lever is in the "neutral" position"

I'm trying to understand what this statement means. It doesn't seem to make sense. What is "P"? To me this seems to indicate Park but how can that be if the vehicle is in Neutral?
I was confused too.....so I post, you guys figure it out so I can understand.

I figure P has to be Park too. Never heard of an auto trans still be in "neutral" when shifted to Park. I've always known Park as engaging the Park "gear"/pin to lock the shaft.

All I can think of is that it has something to do with the transfer case? Does the hi/lo shifter have a position that is neutral? Wonder why it would? And if it does, when the hi/lo shifter is in neutral it disengages "park" on the trans for some type of safety reason????
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:01 PM   #43
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Dammit, got me wondering about something I don't even have!

Ok found it: http://www.yotatech.com/f2/t-p-light-9526/#post77538

So if the tranny is in park & the transfer case shifter is in neutral the truck will actually be in neautral & can still roll. This is when the light should turn on. Guess most guys don't see the light cause they shift when in neutral or on the fly?

Glad that's over with & now I'm feeling sure now that the A/T Temp light only comes on 4x4s.


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Originally Posted by SENIOR TACOROJO View Post
And with gray wire mod I can run locker in 2wd 4hi and 4lo...
Ok one last one, since this came up I've always wondered. Without the gray wire mod, when is the only time you can engage the locker?
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:16 PM   #44
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Good to know about the max temp the atf can get before Toyota decided its too hot. I looked for that briefly the other day and couldn't find it. Also, just to note, on some light to medium off-roading, with out a cooler, it gets pretty close to max temp (250ish).

I also went out and tested the ATP light since I had always thought it was "pressure" also. It does work as described above. Trans in Park, Transfer in Neutral, light turns on. With all other combinations, the light is off, including when starting the vehicle. Kinda a pointless light though, since how often is that really going to be the case that a warning light is needed. Guess its more of a warning that 4L isn't engaged since you have to go through Neutral first and its more friction than going from 2H to 4H. Someone that isn't familiar with how it feels might be confused with out the light (even though the light name doesn't really say much), and doesn't make sense that the light isn't on all the time while in Neutral (on the Transfer case). Whatever. Useless light anyway.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero4 View Post
Dammit, got me wondering about something I don't even have!

Ok found it: http://www.yotatech.com/f2/t-p-light-9526/#post77538

So if the tranny is in park & the transfer case shifter is in neutral the truck will actually be in neautral & can still roll. This is when the light should turn on. Guess most guys don't see the light cause they shift when in neutral or on the fly?

Glad that's over with & now I'm feeling sure now that the A/T Temp light only comes on 4x4s.




Ok one last one, since this came up I've always wondered. Without the gray wire mod, when is the only time you can engage the locker?
Great investigative work. Now this information is in the TW archive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
Good to know about the max temp the atf can get before Toyota decided its too hot. I looked for that briefly the other day and couldn't find it. Also, just to note, on some light to medium off-roading, with out a cooler, it gets pretty close to max temp (250ish).

I also went out and tested the ATP light since I had always thought it was "pressure" also. It does work as described above. Trans in Park, Transfer in Neutral, light turns on. With all other combinations, the light is off, including when starting the vehicle. Kinda a pointless light though, since how often is that really going to be the case that a warning light is needed. Guess its more of a warning that 4L isn't engaged since you have to go through Neutral first and its more friction than going from 2H to 4H. Someone that isn't familiar with how it feels might be confused with out the light (even though the light name doesn't really say much), and doesn't make sense that the light isn't on all the time while in Neutral (on the Transfer case). Whatever. Useless light anyway.
Lol! No wonder I've never seem that light on. I'm always looking down at the lever when I'm moving it from 4Hi to 4Lo. I don't think I've ever left the t-case lever in neutral.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
Good to know about the max temp the atf can get before Toyota decided its too hot. I looked for that briefly the other day and couldn't find it. Also, just to note, on some light to medium off-roading, with out a cooler, it gets pretty close to max temp (250ish).

I also went out and tested the ATP light since I had always thought it was "pressure" also. It does work as described above. Trans in Park, Transfer in Neutral, light turns on. With all other combinations, the light is off, including when starting the vehicle. Kinda a pointless light though, since how often is that really going to be the case that a warning light is needed. Guess its more of a warning that 4L isn't engaged since you have to go through Neutral first and its more friction than going from 2H to 4H. Someone that isn't familiar with how it feels might be confused with out the light (even though the light name doesn't really say much), and doesn't make sense that the light isn't on all the time while in Neutral (on the Transfer case). Whatever. Useless light anyway.
Nice, thanks for confirming. Guess it's just a safety precaution Toyota has to put in place for those who don't know any better.


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Originally Posted by Digiratus View Post
Great investigative work. Now this information is in the TW archive.
Cool, glad it was somewhat useful in the end & not totally a waste of time.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:00 PM   #47
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On the 4x4s the locker could only engage in 4lo, but the prerunner with the elocker could use whenever. The mod grounds a wire to let u use the locker anytime. Comes with no side effects of any kind but, the locker gets used more them 4wd lol.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:21 PM   #48
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Well, I went ahead and did this.

Really not hard at all. The biggest pain is dealing with the hoses. I ended up just adding a connector between the existing hose and the new one. Its just too much trouble to get to the metal line from the trans with the cross member in the way. I did have to go back and pick up an additional hose since the one in the box was just too short for both connections. With the two hoses, I was able to run from the return line in the radiator to the new cooler, then back to the return line in the trans, so the fluid first goes through the radiator, to the cooler, then back to the trans. (thats how they recommended it anyway)

I ended up with one larger than the 678, the 679 (they were out of the 678 and I didn't want to wait) and mounted it directly in front of the condenser. There's one ac line that goes between the bracket and the condenser that had to be moved in front of the bracket, but not a big deal as the bracket comes off fairly easy with a few screws.

As far as my 15 mile test drive went...
Max temp before: 180s. Low about 170
Max temp after: 159. Low seemed to be about 145 after everything got nice and warmed up (which seemed to take quite a while). Max temp seemed very hard to reach. I'd say a more avg high would be about 155. In driveway temp is hard pressed to get to 130s. (Is too cool such a thing?)

Water temp wasn't affected at all, that I could tell. Of course I couldn't tell if the fan was working more or not.

Just for completeness, I do have the green fan clutch (but dont have tow package - after market class 3 hitch with Hopkins 4 prong harness. No clue why I have the green fan, but not complaining.)

Oh, and a pic before I cleaned things up and put it back together.
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Hayden Transmission Oil Cooler Install-100_7039.jpg  
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #49
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ya too cold can be an issue, but doubt it in this case (i'd still double check)

also, i'd use better clamps than those ring worm clamps
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantaco View Post
ya too cold can be an issue, but doubt it in this case (i'd still double check)

also, i'd use better clamps than those ring worm clamps
Suggestions for clamps? This type seems to hold better than the factory ones, which are the squeeze type, which seemed to hold fine for the pressures involved, but I'm not really one to cheap out on something like this either.

The FSM says that normal driving temp is 158 to 176, so I am a bit on the low side of the scale. The temp gets up to 120ish fairly quickly (just by working the trans a little at idle) and didn't have any issues at all with shifting (but its also not the middle of winter either).
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
Well, I went ahead and did this.

Really not hard at all. The biggest pain is dealing with the hoses. I ended up just adding a connector between the existing hose and the new one. Its just too much trouble to get to the metal line from the trans with the cross member in the way. I did have to go back and pick up an additional hose since the one in the box was just too short for both connections. With the two hoses, I was able to run from the return line in the radiator to the new cooler, then back to the return line in the trans, so the fluid first goes through the radiator, to the cooler, then back to the trans. (thats how they recommended it anyway)

I ended up with one larger than the 678, the 679 (they were out of the 678 and I didn't want to wait) and mounted it directly in front of the condenser. There's one ac line that goes between the bracket and the condenser that had to be moved in front of the bracket, but not a big deal as the bracket comes off fairly easy with a few screws.

As far as my 15 mile test drive went...
Max temp before: 180s. Low about 170
Max temp after: 159. Low seemed to be about 145 after everything got nice and warmed up (which seemed to take quite a while). Max temp seemed very hard to reach. I'd say a more avg high would be about 155. In driveway temp is hard pressed to get to 130s. (Is too cool such a thing?)

Water temp wasn't affected at all, that I could tell. Of course I couldn't tell if the fan was working more or not.

Just for completeness, I do have the green fan clutch (but dont have tow package - after market class 3 hitch with Hopkins 4 prong harness. No clue why I have the green fan, but not complaining.)

Oh, and a pic before I cleaned things up and put it back together.
i'm curious about what is holding the heat exchanger in place. Is it mounted to the radiator or does it have mounting brackets that aren't seen in the pic?

It is interesting that the upper temp in the FSM is 176. I am seeing 181-183 regularly in normal street driving. Haven't had the SG long enough to test on the trail.

I'm not surprised the water temps are unaffected. Likely the t-stat maintains temps by opening and closing, If you take away a little heat, it just closes up a bit to maintain its 196-202 range (orange fan clutch).

Since the FSM has a "lower" temp, it is possible that the fluid might need to have some sort of minimum. Not really sure. Did I read somewhere that you experienced +250* tranny temps on the trail this summer? The true test of any tranny cooler will be on those 100* days, in 4lo for that long hill.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:25 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
Well, I went ahead and did this.

Really not hard at all. The biggest pain is dealing with the hoses. I ended up just adding a connector between the existing hose and the new one. Its just too much trouble to get to the metal line from the trans with the cross member in the way. I did have to go back and pick up an additional hose since the one in the box was just too short for both connections. With the two hoses, I was able to run from the return line in the radiator to the new cooler, then back to the return line in the trans, so the fluid first goes through the radiator, to the cooler, then back to the trans. (thats how they recommended it anyway)

I ended up with one larger than the 678, the 679 (they were out of the 678 and I didn't want to wait) and mounted it directly in front of the condenser. There's one ac line that goes between the bracket and the condenser that had to be moved in front of the bracket, but not a big deal as the bracket comes off fairly easy with a few screws.

As far as my 15 mile test drive went...
Max temp before: 180s. Low about 170
Max temp after: 159. Low seemed to be about 145 after everything got nice and warmed up (which seemed to take quite a while). Max temp seemed very hard to reach. I'd say a more avg high would be about 155. In driveway temp is hard pressed to get to 130s. (Is too cool such a thing?)

Water temp wasn't affected at all, that I could tell. Of course I couldn't tell if the fan was working more or not.

Just for completeness, I do have the green fan clutch (but dont have tow package - after market class 3 hitch with Hopkins 4 prong harness. No clue why I have the green fan, but not complaining.)

Oh, and a pic before I cleaned things up and put it back together.
Nice. I've also seen others just add a connector to the stock hoses for ease of installation. I also know what you mean about being a bit hard to get to the hard lines as they're sitting in between the cross member & tranny making them hard to get to.

I choose to run my my lines directly to the hard lines & ditched the stock hoses. Using some long angled needle nose they were pretty easy to take off. I used the hose that came with the hayden to connect to the hard line going back to the tranny since the OD was close to the stock hose & use the stock clamp since using a worm drive clamp would be pretty tough to tighten in there.

The additional hose that you got, did you make sure to use oil transmission cooler hose? If not be sure to check on your hoses as fuel line or heater hose (for coolant) will not last long.

Others have gone with the larger 679 too. I choose not to since I don't tow very often. If you dont tow often & have cold climate those temps you reported just may be too cold. I've heard that AT fluid needs to be around 170 to perform as intended. It's ran into the radiator to help bring temps up to operating temperature quicker if in cold climates & to obviously cool the oil when it gets too hot.

Hayden says to install it after the stock heat exchanger & so does the TRD cooler. There's a big debate over this. Those with the larger cooler like yours run the cooler before the stock heat exchanger to prevent AT oil temps from getting too cold & to keep the temps consistent. Since I went with the size that's the same as the TRD cooler I choose to run it after the stock heat exchanger.

I wouldn't worry unless you rarely tow & don't have cold temps in the winter. If you do just keep an eye on the temps & run the cooler before the stock heat exchanger if your temps are too cold.

Nice that you lucked out on the green fan clutch too. The oil cooler shouldn't affect the clucth fan at much if at all since it mechanical. Only electric fans rely on a temp sensor to kick on. A fan clutch engages with ambient temps around the fan clutch. Proabaly not a big difference in heat radiating on the radiator to affect the fan clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
Suggestions for clamps? This type seems to hold better than the factory ones, which are the squeeze type, which seemed to hold fine for the pressures involved, but I'm not really one to cheap out on something like this either.
I wouldn't worry, you will be fine with common worm drive clamps as long as they're not cheap crap. When I question the quality of a worm drive clamp I would clamp it over a hard rod & screw it tight. If it's cheap crap the clamp/cover holds the worm screw will bend & tend to come loose. If a clamp does this I toss it in the trash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiratus View Post
i'm curious about what is holding the heat exchanger in place. Is it mounted to the radiator or does it have mounting brackets that aren't seen in the pic?

It is interesting that the upper temp in the FSM is 176. I am seeing 181-183 regularly in normal street driving. Haven't had the SG long enough to test on the trail.

I'm not surprised the water temps are unaffected. Likely the t-stat maintains temps by opening and closing, If you take away a little heat, it just closes up a bit to maintain its 196-202 range (orange fan clutch).

Since the FSM has a "lower" temp, it is possible that the fluid might need to have some sort of minimum. Not really sure. Did I read somewhere that you experienced +250* tranny temps on the trail this summer? The true test of any tranny cooler will be on those 100* days, in 4lo for that long hill.
The stock heat exchanger is just a tube that's ran through the lower section of the radiator. It normally soldered in place when the radiator is manufactured but I think ours has fittings to keep it in place since the end caps are composite.

I have a lower temp thermostat & so far my coolant temp has not gone over 175 in 90 deg days. It's normally stays between 168-172. But I haven't had the UG for that long so not sure how hot it will get in 100+ summer days & mashing on the trails.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero4 View Post
The stock heat exchanger is just a tube that's ran through the lower section of the radiator. It normally soldered in place when the radiator is manufactured but I think ours has fittings to keep it in place since the end caps are composite.

I have a lower temp thermostat & so far my coolant temp has not gone over 175 in 90 deg days. It's normally stays between 168-172. But I haven't had the UG for that long so not sure how hot it will get in 100+ summer days & mashing on the trails.
To clarify, I was referring to Manlaan's Hayden setup. I was unsure how it mounts to the radiator area.

Are you in desert climes? Must be. Don't think I could run a 170* t-stat. Certainly not during the winter.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:52 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiratus View Post
i'm curious about what is holding the heat exchanger in place. Is it mounted to the radiator or does it have mounting brackets that aren't seen in the pic?

It is interesting that the upper temp in the FSM is 176. I am seeing 181-183 regularly in normal street driving. Haven't had the SG long enough to test on the trail.

I'm not surprised the water temps are unaffected. Likely the t-stat maintains temps by opening and closing, If you take away a little heat, it just closes up a bit to maintain its 196-202 range (orange fan clutch).

Since the FSM has a "lower" temp, it is possible that the fluid might need to have some sort of minimum. Not really sure. Did I read somewhere that you experienced +250* tranny temps on the trail this summer? The true test of any tranny cooler will be on those 100* days, in 4lo for that long hill.

There are some zip tie like items that you stick through the radiator and clamp it on the other side. They'll work ok I think. You can see the plastic ends on the outside brackets of the cooler sides at the top and about the middle (one had to go higher than the other due to not being able to reach it on the other side). The bracket is also holding it on a bit as well. Not as good as bolting down, but didn't have the means or the space to do a bracket like the OP did. I tried moving and shaking it, and its on there quite good. A trail will be the true test though, of course.

My main concern about the water temp was that there isn't as much air flow to the radiator now, with the additional cooler in front of it. True that its all vented, but its still more resistance, and even warmer air than usual flowing through on that spot, so on extra hot days, its something I'll have to keep my eye on until I know the fan can keep up. I'm not anticipating any issues, but still, its something I'm going to think about.

I put on another 30 miles, mostly highway, and saw similar temps to the previous test I ran. No problems at all with shifting, so I'm not going to worry about sitting a little below the "normal driving temperature". I think the only difference is I'll just have to be careful when checking the trans level is all, since it wont be up to the recommended 150-170 range. Just have to make sure I take it on a little drive before checking is all. But then again, how many people actually know what temp they're supposed to check it at, let alone have the means to make sure its that temp...

I'll be going out to the desert tomorrow. Not sure how hot it'll get, but it'll be something I keep a close eye on to see how close I get to the 200 mark. We've been hitting high 80's and low 90s lately, so temperature wise, it really is still summer here. The desert will probably probably be about the same.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Digiratus View Post
To clarify, I was referring to Manlaan's Hayden setup. I was unsure how it mounts to the radiator area.

Are you in desert climes? Must be. Don't think I could run a 170* t-stat. Certainly not during the winter.
Oh, his oil oil cooler? Looking at his pic it's mounted with the zip tie things that come with almost any add on oild cooler.

Like these: http://rorty-design.com/images/fan_mounting_kit_01.jpg
http://www.trail-gear.com/tech/pump-...7-2789-500.jpg

They just slip through the fins & use foam cushions in between the cores. So in his case, slipped through the oil cooler mounting holes & the ac condensor fins, foam cushions inbetween the oil cooler & ac condensor, with the fastner on the other side of the condensor. I'm not a fan of them since they are one time use but as long as they're secure good they'll work perfectly fine.

Yeah pretty much, I'm in Socal, Los Angeles area. After all, California really is a desert.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:04 PM   #56
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The additional hose that you got, did you make sure to use oil transmission cooler hose? If not be sure to check on your hoses as fuel line or heater hose (for coolant) will not last long.
Yep. Rated for 300* working temp and 400 psi or something like that. Better than the recommended 250* on the installation guide anyway. Even has Transmission Cooler Hose printed on it.

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I wouldn't worry unless you rarely tow & don't have cold temps in the winter. If you do just keep an eye on the temps & run the cooler before the stock heat exchanger if your temps are too cold.
Thats kinda what I plan to do. Just keep an eye on it, and worst case is I just bypass the cooler when I dont need it. Kinda thinking I'm going to add in an external trans filter just to say I did and I have that connector thats now quite easy to get to.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:05 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Manlaan View Post
I'll be going out to the desert tomorrow. Not sure how hot it'll get, but it'll be something I keep a close eye on to see how close I get to the 200 mark. We've been hitting high 80's and low 90s lately, so temperature wise, it really is still summer here. The desert will probably probably be about the same.
Cool, please report back with your results. Man I wish I had a SG now just for the trans temp readout.

I'm sure you will be fine as long as you dont get snowy or icey cold winters. If you do, just rearange the hoses & you're set.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:11 PM   #58
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Yep. Rated for 300* working temp and 400 psi or something like that. Better than the recommended 250* on the installation guide anyway. Even has Transmission Cooler Hose printed on it.
Cool, just making sure. The idiot at the auto parts store sold me fuel line saying I would be fine. Then I remember when we worked at the shop, we had rolls of more expensive "transmission oil cooler" line so I knew there had to be a difference. From what I read online glad I went out & got the right stuff. When I returned the fuel line & the guy asked me why I was returning it, he totally agreed & even said the other guy was an idiot. Might as well do it right the first time & no sense in having to change the hose again soon after.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:17 PM   #59
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Cool, please report back with your results. Man I wish I had a SG now just for the trans temp readout.

I'm sure you will be fine as long as you dont get snowy or icey cold winters. If you do, just rearange the hoses & you're set.
We used to get winters here back in the day, but lately...

But as you said, easy enough to just bypass it if I need to. I'll have to pick up more hose to do so and cap off the existing ends so I dont leave a trail for someone to follow, but not a problem either way.
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