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Old 05-11-2013, 04:54 PM   #1281
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Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
So, I did some measurements last night and had some interesting results. It looks like my shocks have 5 more inches of extension left in them. (extended length of the shock is 28" and full extension on the truck is only 23")



The reason seems to be the binding in the leafs at extension:


The shackle angles show me that I need a longer main leaf. Here are a couple pics at full compression and full extension. (I've done the calculations and figured out that, if I go with a one inch longer shackle, I need a two inch longer main leaf giving me a 47 degree shackle angle. I'll post a thread about how I figured that out sometime.)

Full Extension:


Full Compression:


Does anyone else have bad binding problems in their leafs?

The front suspension, on the other hand is looking good. Almost exactly 11" of wheel travel, and my Light Racing UCAs have plenty of motion left in them:







I don't think I want to go any longer on the shocks because the axle is already at a severe angle:



So, overall, I think I might order up an Alcan main leaf, 2" longer than I have now. And I'll get a 6.5" Orbit eye Shackle setup. My hope: around 4" additional down travel. What do you all think?
Interesting, I've never seen leafs bind like that. I stand corrected on the shocks, yours appear to be plenty long enough.

The first thing I see is that the bolt on the rear of your leafs looks way to tight. That could be your binding problem right there? Secondly, what kind of bushings are you running? The bushings themselves should be flexing much better then that. Third, the clamp thingies that keep the leafy even, do they appear to have any wiggle room when flexing? And lastly, what does the front of your leafs look like at full flex?
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:03 PM   #1282
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Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
Man, your shackle angles tell the story. It looks like they are moving waaay more freely than mine. Also, it looks like you are running 3 or 4 leafs in your pack. I wonder if the fact that I've got 8 in mine is part of the difference. It seems like each leaf is helping the others resist the torsion. Whatever it is, I want my suspension to flex more like yours....


It's interesting that Alcan told you that the orbit eyes didn't handle weight well. I'll have to ask them more about that. I mentioned that I am going to build a rear bumper with a tire carrier for expo trips and they said the eyes should be fine, but I never asked explicitly about weight. I'll call them on Monday and check on it.

Out of curiosity, which shocks are you running and are you still in the stock mounts? I'm just wondering what lengths you are getting and if you see any binding in your rear...

Thanks, as usual, for the info Blackdawg.
actually i have 7 leafs..so not that far off from you..

Maybe your shackles are too tight?? I know i tightened mine too much the first go around and was like..WTF?!..then loosened then a bit..flex great now.

And well it was a year ago I honestly don't think just one makes that big a difference..nets you MAYBE .5''..and they are sooooo expensive. Plus you have to get custom shackles made by Alcan too as the Ordbits are much wider or something so normal sized ones don't fit.

I have just billy 5150s 10'' travel. Im sure im maxed something out tho..they leak pretty bad now..

Honestly i haven't seen much binding..im pretty happy with my rear setup. Id like to relocate my shocks like /\ and get some 11'' ones or 12'' and better shocks then my current ones. Something rebuildable at least..
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:07 PM   #1283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davtopgun View Post
Interesting, I've never seen leafs bind like that. I stand corrected on the shocks, yours appear to be plenty long enough.

The first thing I see is that the bolt on the rear of your leafs looks way to tight. That could be your binding problem right there? Secondly, what kind of bushings are you running? The bushings themselves should be flexing much better then that. Third, the clamp thingies that keep the leafy even, do they appear to have any wiggle room when flexing? And lastly, what does the front of your leafs look like at full flex?
I think you're onto something with my lower shackle bolt. I'll try loosening that up and see if that nets me more flex.

I'm running prothane bushings, which are pretty stiff. My hope was that they would break in, but they are holding up almost too well...

As for the clamp thingies, I think there is enough room to move in there. It looks like they let the top leave bend. What do you think?

Also, the front side of the leafs were just going into negative arch when I took the pic. This picture is from a different day... it's just a little more extreme than the negative arch the other night.

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Old 05-12-2013, 04:09 PM   #1284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
I think you're onto something with my lower shackle bolt. I'll try loosening that up and see if that nets me more flex.

I'm running prothane bushings, which are pretty stiff. My hope was that they would break in, but they are holding up almost too well...

As for the clamp thingies, I think there is enough room to move in there. It looks like they let the top leave bend. What do you think?

Also, the front side of the leafs were just going into negative arch when I took the pic. This picture is from a different day... it's just a little more extreme than the negative arch the other night.


i actually don't have one of those retainer clips blot in either. The leaf that has the clip is too low so i can't fit a bolt on them. I bet that is one of the reasons i droop so well too.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:16 PM   #1285
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Originally Posted by Blackdawg View Post
actually i have 7 leafs..so not that far off from you..

Maybe your shackles are too tight?? I know i tightened mine too much the first go around and was like..WTF?!..then loosened then a bit..flex great now.

And well it was a year ago I honestly don't think just one makes that big a difference..nets you MAYBE .5''..and they are sooooo expensive. Plus you have to get custom shackles made by Alcan too as the Ordbits are much wider or something so normal sized ones don't fit.

I have just billy 5150s 10'' travel. Im sure im maxed something out tho..they leak pretty bad now..

Honestly i haven't seen much binding..im pretty happy with my rear setup. Id like to relocate my shocks like /\ and get some 11'' ones or 12'' and better shocks then my current ones. Something rebuildable at least..
Well crap... Maybe I'll head out to the garage right now and loosen those bolts a half turn or so. I didn't realize you had 7 leafs in there.

Yeah, I was looking at investing some pretty serious cash and going a couple of inches longer on the main leaf, going a little longer on the shackle and getting the orbit eyes at the same time. Maybe I can save that cash and start on my rear bumper!

Also, your 10" 5150s and my 12" 7100 Short bodies have basically the same compressed length. If you're looking for something to swap in with just a little more travel, I've been impressed with mine. Plus they're rebuildable and I like the bling!
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:41 PM   #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
Well crap... Maybe I'll head out to the garage right now and loosen those bolts a half turn or so. I didn't realize you had 7 leafs in there.

Yeah, I was looking at investing some pretty serious cash and going a couple of inches longer on the main leaf, going a little longer on the shackle and getting the orbit eyes at the same time. Maybe I can save that cash and start on my rear bumper!

Also, your 10" 5150s and my 12" 7100 Short bodies have basically the same compressed length. If you're looking for something to swap in with just a little more travel, I've been impressed with mine. Plus they're rebuildable and I like the bling!
How much do they run usually?? Same compression length is bad ass.

Yea try loosening the shackles. And take out that retainer clip top bolt.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:46 PM   #1287
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Full setup was going to be over $500, so I'll try your (and Davtopgun's) advice with loosening the shackle bolts and pull that top bolt from the retainer clip.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #1289
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Blackdawg: It was that price because I was only going to buy the main/support leaf for each side. (plus the orbit eyes and special shackles) Like you said, I'll update you guys on working with what I've got first. When I post up new pics, I'd love your weigh in.

BTW, this is probably one of the most helpful forums/threads I've seen. Thanks for all of your input, guys
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:16 PM   #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
I think you're onto something with my lower shackle bolt. I'll try loosening that up and see if that nets me more flex.

I'm running prothane bushings, which are pretty stiff. My hope was that they would break in, but they are holding up almost too well...

As for the clamp thingies, I think there is enough room to move in there. It looks like they let the top leave bend. What do you think?

Also, the front side of the leafs were just going into negative arch when I took the pic. This picture is from a different day... it's just a little more extreme than the negative arch the other night.

This pic shows another possible big problem. You're never supposed to negative arch leaf springs. You can lose much of your positive arch. If they've been doing that for a long time, then you've likely lost some of your positive arch, meaning that your leaf pack will no longer droop like it was designed to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdawg View Post
i actually don't have one of those retainer clips blot in either. The leaf that has the clip is too low so i can't fit a bolt on them. I bet that is one of the reasons i droop so well too.

My leafs have the bolt, but it sits 1" above the leaf pack, allowing for a ton of droop. My shocks bottom out long before the leafs get anywhere near it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:56 PM   #1291
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This is my 95'
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:35 AM   #1293
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Milota95: Nice lookin rig. It makes me want a rear bumper with tire carrier.

Davtopgun: You're right about negative arch ruining springs. I've been kind of careful to prevent that. I got some negative this time because I was measuring full flex for my extended bump stops. I threw about 300 lbs of stuff in the back and basically RTI'd it till one back tire came off the ground. (I'm hoping that didn't hurt anything?) Now I know that I need a 3.75" extension on my strike plate. Maybe I'll take a picture of the truck straight and level and get your opinion.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #1294
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thankyou guys!
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
Milota95: Nice lookin rig. It makes me want a rear bumper with tire carrier.

Davtopgun: You're right about negative arch ruining springs. I've been kind of careful to prevent that. I got some negative this time because I was measuring full flex for my extended bump stops. I threw about 300 lbs of stuff in the back and basically RTI'd it till one back tire came off the ground. (I'm hoping that didn't hurt anything?) Now I know that I need a 3.75" extension on my strike plate. Maybe I'll take a picture of the truck straight and level and get your opinion.
Shouldn't have hurt them if only done a few times. I need to take those measurements myself, but been working crazy hours.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:49 PM   #1299
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Yeah, it suck pretty bad. I had surgery on it, then 7 weeks later, I partially tore it when I fell on some stairs. SO... as of last week, I'm back to square one . My surgeon is really good, so we're hoping for a full recovery. I was powerlifting competitively back in 2011 and I'm hoping to get back to that... deadlift and all. So, we'll see.
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