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Double Cardan joint

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:33 PM   #1
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Double Cardan joint

Can i rebuild my double cardan joint ? just looks like 2 ujoints is all . i read here some where u can't but i don't see why not.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #2
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They are considered non-replaceable parts only as far as the dealer is concerned. You can replace them.

Here's a writeup.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jberry813 View Post
They are considered non-replaceable parts only as far as the dealer is concerned. You can replace them.

Here's a writeup.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/
non-repairable you meant ?

many other components seem to fall in that category...
But it's not limited to Toyota dealerships.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #5
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A reputable driveline shop should be able to rebuild it, or get you the parts if you want to do it yourself.

I did it on my 94 Toyota. It wasn't easy, but it was doable.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:21 AM   #6
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Ya after lokking at it for awhile it doesn't look that hard to me its just 2 ujoints instead of one. I think the hard part might be getting the right ujoints for it .
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toyotadan98 View Post
Can i rebuild my double cardan joint ? just looks like 2 ujoints is all . i read here some where u can't but i don't see why not.
Between the 2 joints is what is known as a "centering ball". All 3 components are mechanically in-twined. The movement of one part is dependent on the movement of the others.
Once on the bench changing out the 3 components takes me 45 minutes, not including parts cleaning. Most drive line shops give it a 1 hour flat rate but will really rape you on the parts and the parts may be garbage.

This job is far from hard. There are however many places to screw up. The process is just a little different than a regular u-joint and if the sequential steps are not followed EXACTLY the whole thing goes south fast. The 4x4wire write up pretty much explains the theory for taking things apart but the methods used and a few critical details including putting it back together are somewhat lacking. I have a better write up somewhere with pics, covering the details. I will try and dig it up if there is interest.

Obtaining the correct parts is the first hurdle. There are five companies that make dimensionally correct joints for the aftermarket, Neapco, Precision, Rockford, Spicer and Matsuba. In some cases they are not found under a Tacoma application at all. Matsuba is considered by far the best and equal to OEM. Spend the money and get the Matsubas. Toyota and Koyo, the OEM supplier do not sell the joints or the centering ball. The only source for the ball I know of is Neapco and there are 2 different ones found in Tacomas. http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/ should be able to get the Matsubas or just Google for suppliers with the best deal to your location.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:48 AM   #8
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Thanks for the info guys , it might be easier to just buy one.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Pool View Post
Between the 2 joints is what is known as a "centering ball". All 3 components are mechanically in-twined. The movement of one part is dependent on the movement of the others.
Once on the bench changing out the 3 components takes me 45 minutes, not including parts cleaning. Most drive line shops give it a 1 hour flat rate but will really rape you on the parts and the parts may be garbage.

This job is far from hard. There are however many places to screw up. The process is just a little different than a regular u-joint and if the sequential steps are not followed EXACTLY the whole thing goes south fast. The 4x4wire write up pretty much explains the theory for taking things apart but the methods used and a few critical details including putting it back together are somewhat lacking. I have a better write up somewhere with pics, covering the details. I will try and dig it up if there is interest.

Obtaining the correct parts is the first hurdle. There are three companies that make dimensionally correct joints for the aftermarket, Neapco, Precision and Matsuba. In some cases they are not found under a Tacoma application at all. Matsuba is considered by far the best and equal to OEM. Spend the money and get the Matsubas. Toyota and Koyo, the OEM supplier do not sell the joints or the centering ball. The only source for the ball I know of is Neapco and there are 2 different ones found in Tacomas. http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/ has the Matsubas or just Google for suppliers with the best deal to your location.
I am interested in the write-up when you get the chance to look for it. Thanks!
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boshak View Post
I am interested in the write-up when you get the chance to look for it. Thanks!
Here ya go, get comfortable.
I did some more editing and it looks good to me. If anyone finds an error or something that could be clearer let me know.


TACOMA DOUBLE CARDAN
WRITE-UP HAS BEEN

REVISED

Again




TACOMA DOUBLE CARDAN
Mostly about the "inside clip" style

U-JOINTS
The u-joints are not the same as the shaft ends. Neapco, Precision, Rockford, Spicer and Matsuba Universal Joint Co (Matsuba is considered to be an OEM equivalent) are the only folks that make a dimensionally correct u-joint for the 95-99 xcab Tacoma Double Cardan or CV with "inside" clips. At some point (not confirmed) after 99, some trucks may have the "outside" clip style. The OEM Koyo's are not marketed to the public at all. Folks in the know will tell you the only replacement worth the time is the Matsuba. The Matsuba should be increasingly available through a handful of off road specialty shops such as Cruiser Outfitters that sell Matsuba. You may need to supply the Matsuba part# UJ236.
No company lists a Tacoma application with the exception of Rockford for the outside clip style only. The outside clip style does not have the joint caps located as deep into the yoke. This may allow them to be removed in the conventional manner. The inside clip style requires the procedure featured in this write-up.
The dimensionally correct joint for the inside clip type is usually listed under “T 100 front” and some of the pre Tacoma trucks. No matter, IMO (and many others) none equal Matsuba. One rumor says Koyo is made by Matsuba. Rather than loose any sleep worrying about the wimpy quality of the Neapco c-clips on the joints I first installed (ran them for 15-20K without issue), they were pulled back out, tossed, and the OEM Koyos put back in. I didn't even want to keep them for my spare shaft. The OEM Koyo joints were still like new at 200K miles. My whole reason for the rebuild was an issue with the relief valve for the centering ball, another story.


For Inside clip type
1.125" cap, all the joints below are dimensionally the same.
Neapco-#1-5800, Center Ball Kit #7-0409 USA made, used by many shops, questionable (by me) "wimpy" c-clips, I ran them for 15-20K with out issue
Precision-#513 Made in China
Spicer-#5-2532x May be obsolete
Rockford-#407-10 No personal experience
Matsuba-#UJ236 Spend the money on these


The only known replacement joint for the outside clip type.
1.065" cap
Rockford Drive Line-#2540 The DC looks like the pic at the very end of the write-up and seems to be more prevalent on after 99 shafts.



Let's get to it
"Inside clip" type

DO NOT remove your OEM ball unless you are sure it is bad. (some slight play between the ball and it's race is normal).

HOW TO DO IT, this is the unique procedure for the "inside clip" style. The "outside clip" version may come apart like a conventional u-joint with out the "washer trick" mentioned in the 4x4wire link below.

This is not a job to attempt your first time on the floor in a dark garage or something to tackle if a regular u-joint job is not second nature to you. I will assume that you have read and understand everything in the following link for the basic principle (washer trick) and the EXACT ORDER of dis-assembly. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/ Forget about the modification part.
There are a number of flaws in that write up. The following changes/additions worked for me.

I used a hammer for dis-assembly and a “C-Clamp” type ball joint press for assembly. The latter because I have one and it offers more control. Pressing the caps back in with sockets and a vice will be just as effective. Tapping the caps in with a hammer will work, just keep an extra vigilant eye on the needles. Be very careful of the rubber skirt that shields the ball. The biggest thing with this job for the 1st timer is to THINK AHEAD.

First, note the EXACT WAY the OEM cap retainer clips are positioned. Draw yourself a little picture including the relationship of all the parts. The new clips must be installed in the exact same position with the open end of the “C” pointing along the drive line length. The clips must equally span the 2 crescent shaped bosses on the inboard side of the bore on the “H” (pic #2). Before removal clean the living heck out of the recesses outboard of the caps down to bare metal and add a few drops of a penetrating oil.

Supporting the flange end against the corner of a vice (4x4wire) and pounding on the “H” with a mallet is sort of crude and could easily damage things. A short piece of 3” x 1/4” channel cut nice and square on the trusty Binford 4600 band saw, supports the yoke perfectly (pic #1). Once the "H" is pounded to the point where the joint stops against the “H”, fish the needles out of the gap at the opposite end with a rare earth magnet gripped in a hemostat, quick and easy. You should have 25 needles. Then do the washer trick to get the cap the rest of the way out. The washers I used were .65” diameter. This size is not critical, if the washers fit in the cap all is well. The joint can then be separated and the remaining cap tapped out with a nice brass drift. At this point, very important, [B]Pay close attention to the motions used and position/angle of the ball as the joint comes apart, it will help with assembly.[B/]
Repeat the process for the shaft end joint.

To assemble, do the shaft end first. It goes together like a conventional joint. Then install the remaining joint into the flange end. You should have something just like pic # 2. At this point start by packing the hole in the centering ball with grease and plunge the spring into the ball not into the pin as the pic shows. The grease will hold the spring and needles in place through the tricky part. Keep it straight and don’t dislodge any of the tiny needles. You must be absolutely positive that the ball needles are in place during the entire operation, any doubt at any point, back up and make sure.
Remove the remaining two caps from the flange end. Take the lower cap (upper/lower orientation refers to pic #2) and press it into the lower bore of the “H” until the seal is flush with the inside edge of the bore. This will give you a place to “park” the joint while you start the other cap after the tricky part. Do not start the upper cap yet. Getting the “pin” over the spring and into the ball with out dislodging a needle is the tricky part. With no cap in the upper bore and the [B]ball tilted up[B/] a bit there is enough room to slide the pin into the ball (against the spring pressure).
Tip the bare upper shaft of the flange end joint into the empty upper hole of the “H”. You should see how at this point the pin will be a straight shot into the ball, adjust the angle of the ball if need be. The joint/flange is then tilted back down to allow the lower shaft to be slipped into the lower cap. When the lower shaft is inserted into the lower cap (parked) the spring in the ball will be held compressed and the upper cap can be installed after a short breather. Before installing the upper cap, check that no needles have been dislodged. Once the upper cap is started you will not be able to deal with a dislodged needle. Rehearse this move a few times then go for it.
A c-frame ball joint press or a wide vice works best for smooth controlled assembly.
Double check your clip placement and you’re done. It took me longer to write this than it did to R+R the 2 joints the second time.

If you need to change the ball (not likely) locate a short bolt, total length no longer than the diameter of the ball. Stick it into the ball then rotate the ball 180 deg and pull the threaded end of the bolt out the hole. This gives a threaded “stud” to attach your choice of pullers. My puller was a nut, washer and a few scraps of steel. See pics 3, 4 and 5. Some write ups on the net say to just pry it out, I like my little puller. Tap the new ball in with a socket against the race. The race is off centered a bit on the ball, check the orientation of the OEM race as it is removed and install the new one the same way. Follow with the ball seal.
Be aware that there are 2 sizes for the center ball. My 99 took the larger .510" stud. I think the smaller one is .470" or there about.

The end,
aside from the "Centering Ball Grease Pressure Relief Valve Mod", another story.


Picture #1 , All the tools used. The length of 1/2" brass tube helps to align the needles in the ball should they get dislodged. Note how the 3" channel supports the yoke.


Picture #2 The crescent shaped bosses can be seen inside the bottom bore of the "H".


Picture #3


Picture #4


Picture #5


Outside clip style DC joint.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:59 AM   #11
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Nice write up , can i come use your tools lol , thanks again for all the great info.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:29 AM   #12
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Do you know which of the matsubas will fit an 03 tacoma v6 auto trans 4x4 ext cab? thanks and great write up!
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:22 AM   #13
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Just get a hold of Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters. The folks answering the phone at FROR apparently do not know what they are talking about. As an absolute last resort go to High Angle Drive Line. I would give my money to Cruiser Outfitters.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:21 AM   #14
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Called Kurt and he said i needed the part number for the ujoint, which I dont know. Still trying to figure out which ujoints are the right ones for the double cardan........anyone who could let me know, i would appreciate it!
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatemytruck View Post
Called Kurt and he said i needed the part number for the ujoint, which I dont know. Still trying to figure out which ujoints are the right ones for the double cardan........anyone who could let me know, i would appreciate it!
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #16
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I don't see the U-joints for the double cardan on their website. Where can I find them? One of mine is starting to fail.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverno4 View Post
I don't see the U-joints for the double cardan on their website. Where can I find them? One of mine is starting to fail.
Apparently http://www.highangledriveline.com/ is the only place to get the Matsuba brand joint (OEM equivalent) and they may or may not be keeping the Matsuba # to themselves. Any company that sells Matsuba can get them, they just need the Matsuba part #. The whole issue with this part # thing is that the dimensionally correct joint is not listed as a Tacoma application.

"ihatemytruck" 3 posts up, may or may not have bought them from HAD. I sent him all my dimensional data and part #'s from 4 other manufacturers and asked for a reply if he was successful with a cross reference to the Matsuba #. I have not heard back from him.

Two Eagle Feathers to you or anyone else who can come up with the Matsuba #.
When I get the Matsuba #, I will finish and re-post the write-up revision.

The write-up has been revised, 10-6-13, with info on the outside clip style
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #18
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How much is a new DC joint from Toyota versus the parts and labor associated with a rebuild at a professional shop?

Why is there so much secrecy with these part numbers? It makes no sense. Is Toyota just trying to sell complete DC joints rather than have people rebuild them?
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeSix View Post
How much is a new DC joint from Toyota versus the parts and labor associated with a rebuild at a professional shop?

Why is there so much secrecy with these part numbers? It makes no sense. Is Toyota just trying to sell complete DC joints rather than have people rebuild them?
To get a DC out of Toyota you must buy the entire drive shaft, many many 100's of $. Why? Who Knows. One could speculate on this for ever.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:57 AM   #20
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Good stuff

One of my CVs has an outside snap ring. I'm assuming I could order an inside clip type Matsuba joint and replace it with that?
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