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Old 05-03-2013, 03:19 PM   #1
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Too much torque??

Okay, so since my annoying ass steering wheel shake is still a mystery, I decided to see if my front lugs needed to be torqued down. I got out my torque wrench and went up to 75 which is what discount tire originally put my wheels on at. I recently had my front tires rebalanced at what my everyone says is an excellent tire place a few months ago.

Well anyway, I went to check and noticed there was no sound/ popping at 75. So I decided to loosen a lug and see what ft lbs they were at. The torque wrench just kept going and still no noise. I maxed it out at 150 with slight popping from the lugs yet no movement still. Isn't this WAY too much for aluminum wheels??? I also doubt my torque wrench is that off cause I (155 lbs) could stand on top of the regular 1/2 wrench.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:24 PM   #2
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I was leaning on it pretty hard

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Old 05-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #3
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Breaking torque is often times much higher than the original torque. And the longer it is on there the more likely the case. Galvanic corrosion comes to mind between the lugnuts and the aluminum wheel itself. The corrosion doesnt have to be major, or even very noticeable. A very thin layer of corrosion can cause this. I am not saying that they werent overtorqued to begin with, but this may be a factor.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:50 PM   #4
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I do know that the tire place I use has a bad habit of running the air gun around two or three times once the tire is on.

I've ask them not too but they have a different crew everyday.

When they fix or replace a tire I just loosen and torque back to spec.

I guess they think they are putting on a tractor tire.

If I remember correctly 83 ft lbs is all that is needed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:55 PM   #5
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I was just wondering if that much torque could have damaged something.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
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You should be OK. the worst that will usually happen is a stud breaks.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:22 PM   #7
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The first problem and most correctable is to not go to discount tires, they are the worst. Or at least I've had the worst experience with them. They don't give a S**T about what they do to anyones cars, damaging wheels, improper balancing, etc.... Those places are all about numbers, they care about getting more customers through the door and selling tires. There's no quality in their work, at all. Sorry for the rant, but over torquing the wheels is to be expected from discount tires, worse case scenario it'll break the studs as stated above.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbofed View Post
The first problem and most correctable is to not go to discount tires, they are the worst. Or at least I've had the worst experience with them. They don't give a S**T about what they do to anyones cars, damaging wheels, improper balancing, etc.... Those places are all about numbers, they care about getting more customers through the door and selling tires. There's no quality in their work, at all. Sorry for the rant, but over torquing the wheels is to be expected from discount tires, worse case scenario it'll break the studs as stated above.
Actually, discount tire isn't the one that over torqued my driver side wheel. It was the "reputable shop" that did it.

The only thing bad from discount tire was the guy put a really small dent in my hub cap with the torque wrench when I got the wheels re-torqued after originally buying them. I heard it from inside the truck but didn't say anything. I could tell he was still clenching his butthole when he told me I was good to go lol.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:18 PM   #9
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I've found that I cannot loosen the lug nuts with a star wrench, if the lugs are set to factory specs. I have to use a breaker bar ( could be my advancing age though ).

I usually re-torque all of them to 75lbs if and when it a shop puts on the wheels. That way I can remove the lugs on the road if I get a flat, without getting a hernia. I've been doing this for years, and find that 75 is more than enough.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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You should never use a torque wrench to loosen nuts or bolts...
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tan4x4 View Post
I've found that I cannot loosen the lug nuts with a star wrench, if the lugs are set to factory specs. I have to use a breaker bar ( could be my advancing age though ).

I usually re-torque all of them to 75lbs if and when it a shop puts on the wheels. That way I can remove the lugs on the road if I get a flat, without getting a hernia. I've been doing this for years, and find that 75 is more than enough.
haha, sorry to hear about your aging. I'm outta luck if I get a flat. A 31" spare won't fit under the truck with the dual exhaust.
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Originally Posted by Supra TT View Post
You should never use a torque wrench to loosen nuts or bolts...
I was just going in the opposite direction, thats all.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #12
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I use America's Tire (Discount Tire, same business/alt. name) all the time.
The folks working there, do exactly as I ask/request.
They will turn/rotate the tires on the wheels 180* if wheel weight/oz is excessive.
Prep/clean the wheel surface before adhering the sticky weights that I commonly request.
They allow me to select my tire PSI and lug nut torque choice... along with other services I request for my monies paid.
Thought everyone did that too (should)
Being ignorant is no excuse IMO.
Ignorance is akin to laziness... especially when every answer is available, right there at our fingertips or ears

Maybe the difference is... I know what I want/expect for my paid services.
And so I have that discussion with them before they even begin work.
Doesn't matter whom that service/vendor might be.

I'll suppose if one just drops it off and says do yer thang...
then that will be what the customer gets.

bah...
the customer has to take some responsibility, for being clear on what services they are paying for... and in fact receive.

I often stay there and watch the techs as they do their work on my junk.
Because I trust no one.
If they deviate from what my instructions are... correction comes swiftly.

-----------------------

Over torquing the wheel studs does more then just break studs.
That's the most obvious/visual thing maybe...
But less obvious/noticeable is the possible warping of the rotor and/or hub from over torquing the lug nuts.
Warped rotors cause oscillation and can lead to vibration issues.

83-84 ft lbs max... more then that... is fubar
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #13
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somewhere in my michelin training log,it says "over torque can also cause misalignment". im not too sure how that is connected but your truck only needs to be torqued at 80flbs. you can break the studs easily from overtightening and strip out the lug nut
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1963 View Post
I do know that the tire place I use has a bad habit of running the air gun around two or three times once the tire is on.

I've ask them not too but they have a different crew everyday.

When they fix or replace a tire I just loosen and torque back to spec.

I guess they think they are putting on a tractor tire.

If I remember correctly 83 ft lbs is all that is needed.
Depends on if they use a torque rod. I used to have several in my tool box when I was working at Sears. They look similar to an extension, but the design of the metal is such that no matter how strong of an impact you are using, the torque rod will not allow a higher torque to be applied to the lugnut. Not sure if they actually use them, but I know several times I would have customers complain that we used impact guns to tighten wheels until we showed them the torque rods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taco terror View Post
I was just wondering if that much torque could have damaged something.
The most common problem with incorrectly torqued lug nuts is a potential for a warped rotor. A very common problem.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:58 PM   #15
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Discount tire is one of the places they do a good job torquing wheels...I'd never go back to a place that torqued the crap on a lugnut....can result in warped brake disks, etc...
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taco terror View Post
Well anyway, I went to check and noticed there was no sound/ popping at 75. So I decided to loosen a lug and see what ft lbs they were at. The torque wrench just kept going and still no noise. I maxed it out at 150 with slight popping from the lugs yet no movement still. Isn't this WAY too much for aluminum wheels??? I also doubt my torque wrench is that off cause I (155 lbs) could stand on top of the regular 1/2 wrench.
A few points:

- Breakout torque when loosening is almost always higher than the original tightening torque, due to the screwform acting as a continuous wedge.

- The 12x1.5mm studs in Toyotas should be tightened to 83 ft-lb. Not sure where you got 75 ft-lb.

- The torque spec is determined by stud size and the grade of steel used in the stud and lugnut. Steel and aluminum wheels should be torqued to the same specs. The aluminum wheel will be compressed more, but that's OK, because cracks don't form in compression.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Depends on if they use a torque rod. I used to have several in my tool box when I was working at Sears. They look similar to an extension, but the design of the metal is such that no matter how strong of an impact you are using, the torque rod will not allow a higher torque to be applied to the lugnut. Not sure if they actually use them, but I know several times I would have customers complain that we used impact guns to tighten wheels until we showed them the torque rods.



The most common problem with incorrectly torqued lug nuts is a potential for a warped rotor. A very common problem.

Great to know.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #18
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #19
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I have a very long breaker bar, it will do one of two things fairly easily, only one way to find out unless you have an air gun to rattle the nuts off, it will either loosen the nuts or shear the studs....rears are easy to replace, fronts take a bit longer..

I find my medium sized rotary hammer drill set on hammer only with a long pointed bit make short work on removal, about 5/10 seconds on the left over, out.... it is harder to seat the new ones, have some fun, go for it...

might be a good idea to invest in some new studs and have them on hand, just in case...
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldegle2 View Post
I have a very long breaker bar, it will do one of two things fairly easily, only one way to find out unless you have an air gun to rattle the nuts off, it will either loosen the nuts or shear the studs....rears are easy to replace, fronts take a bit longer..

I find my medium sized rotary hammer drill set on hammer only with a long pointed bit make short work on removal, about 5/10 seconds on the left over, out.... it is harder to seat the new ones, have some fun, go for it...

might be a good idea to invest in some new studs and have them on hand, just in case...
Thanks guys, I didn't say I couldn't get them off though.

I had the tires rotated over the weekend by discount tire and they should be torqued down to 85 foot lbs now.
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