more front end clunk - what else could it be?!?!

front end clunk occurring:
-only at speeds less than 15-20km/hr, quiet and tight at any faster speeds
-happens in RWD, 4x4 hi and low
-cannot replicate the sound by jumping on the front bumper or pushing the side of the truck from any direction
-the steering feels fine even while it is clunking, sounds more like it is coming from right around the wheel wells on both pass. and drivers side. DS is definitely worse though

sounds like a strut bushing or a coil spring thunking, not a hard metal on metal clank but more of a dull thud. the truck is a 1998 tacoma v6 4x4 (no manual hubs so must be ADD if i'm correct?). also it has OME front shocks(not sure the exact model??) with 881 coils.

I have read though a few of the recent front end clunk threads and tried out the following:
-replaced inner + outer tie rods w/ OEM parts
-replaced upper + lower ball joints w/ OEM parts
-had wheel alignment done, tech sounded very confident that the control arm bushings were not loose/worn as they were able to align it without any problems and there was no play in any parts
-this morning i removed the sway bar + links completely and the sound is still there
-visually inspected the lower strut bushing, does not look work or cracked
-bolts are tight

all thats left is strut bushing that mounts to the LCA and steering rack bushings is that correct? i read someone say their front wheel bearings caused a thud but it doesn't grind or howl at speeds so that doesn't sound right. i think if it was the cv's binding/making that much noise they would have failed a while ago. also i let it droop all the way and the upper part of the spindle where the upperBJ attaches is NOT hitting the coil. i dont think the shock could be maxing out its extension as they are both OME coil+shock (the previous owner did the lift not me). also the trans and motor mounts feel good, could it be a body mount or something around the frame?

today was around -25celsius working on the driveway really blows so if anyone can help point me in another direction that would be great. also i'm doing all this work on my own so its hard to try pushing/prying on things and find out the exact spot the sound is coming from. I have considered duct taping my cellphone to the underside of the truck to take a video but it's an expensive POS and dont want to accidentally destroy it... i am considering just taking it to a shop to have it fixed but would like to know what needs replacing before if possible.

sorry for the lengthy post but i figure all the info up front might help

cheers

max

 

Uca bushings? I think mine are causing a similar noise

 

i was wondering about those but i would have thought if they were worn out enough to clunk that much that the shop who did my alignment would have for sure mentioned it. i phoned them today and asked them if the either the UCA or LCA bushings were bad at all and the guy said there was nothing that looked like an issue. i mean, it is to my understanding that they would not have been able to do a proper alignment at all if the bushings had that much free play in them

the biggest thing for me right now is that i want to make sure its not a safety issue, 2nd is i really need the truck real bad and with university getting busier i dont have as much spare time and money to throw away

 

have you checked steerign rack bushings? can do that with truck off, column unlocked, have someone turn the wheel side to side while you look at rack.

 

it could be your cv axles clicking. grab them and yank on it to see if it makes noise

 

thanks for the replies,

I did check the steering rack bushings, there is a some play but not very much. I think they'll probably need to be replaced anyways but I don't think that's the main cause of the clunking. I say this because the sound appears to definitely be coming from right in the wheel wells on both sides (not the center of the floor) , and i feel no slop in the steering wheel when it clunks. I could be wrong on that though..

i also did give the CVs a shake back when i had it on jackstands while replacing the TREs and BJs. They felt solid then but I will try them again now that the truck is back on the ground. Also, The inner and outer boots look ok on both sides and no grinding/growling/clicking while driving on flat, smooth pavement. Also no change in the clunking in and out of 4wd, but im not too familiar with the ADD my old truck had manual hubs so i'm not sure if it's the same where the front axles are still engaged in both RWD and 4WD.

i did some online searching for OME shocks clunking and apparently this is somewhat of a common thing? even though there is no leaks or signs of a worn out shock sometimes they can clunk when they go from loaded to unloaded quickly? also the caster alignment is close, but not perfect so maybe the control arm geometry is binding/popping something?

I am bringing it in to a good shop on tuesday and have a big list of things i have checked and what i suspect may be the issue. hoping they can figure it out without breaking my bank account.

 

i found a youtube video some random posted with loose rack bushings (sorry please ignore the crappy music playing in it not mine...). In comparison mine has at the most maybe 25% or less of the movement that the one in the video has. Just enough that you can see the bushing slightly deform and the rack barely move - so nowhere near as bad as the one in the video.

i'll try and get a video from inside the cab of the clunk sound with either my camera or my phone this afternoon

oops forgot to add the video link sorry... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeRzQ_8z15k

 

Can you clear up a few things for me, please?

When does the noise happen? You said less than 20mph, but under what conditions?
Steering straight, while turning sharply? If you quickly jiggle steering wheel back and forth? Only when going 20mph over a bump? Are bumps involved at all? When you accel/decel quickly?

Not similar at all, but I recently replaced all upper and lower BJs and tie rods on my 1995 Civic. Everything was nice and quiet...for about 3 days. Then this god awful knocking showed up in the front end. It just kept getting worse until I stumpled upon the little-known steering rack adjustment. It's this nut and bolt that has to be re-tightened periodically (probably hadn't been done since the warranty period!) to adapt for play accumulated in the steering rack over years.
My noise was driving me crazy. I would have bet money that one of the BJs I installed had popped back out of place, since it sounded very much like it was coming from the wheelwells, but I could also feel it in the steering wheel and floorboards.

 

definitely!

- only clunks over bumps while driving, generally the larger the bump the louder it is. no issues on smooth pavement. however if i go slow enough, ie very gently crawl over bumps it wont clunk, but a quick jarring of the suspension like speed bumps, potholes, or washboard type bumps will cause it.

-happens both when steering straight as well as steering either left or right. does not happen as a result of just turning the steering wheel, only while going over bumps on the road. so just jiggling the steering wheel on its own, either while stationary or moving, does not make anything clunk.

-it can clunk both sides at the same time when both wheels hit a bump at the same time, ie hitting a speed bump while steering straight. but much more so while going over a bump while steering in either direction, ie only one wheel hits the bump first and one side clunking at a time

-accel/decel will not cause it to clunk, at least on smooth pavement. i can stomp on the gas or slam on the brakes and everything feels pretty tight

-strangely enough but worth noting, outside temperature seems to have a significant effect on the clunk. we've been at -15 to -30 degrees celsius quite often this winter and the sound really comes out more the colder it gets.

-also it has an ARB bumper which i know can rub against the edge of the pass. side fender which would explain some clunking, but not on the drivers side. last week the drivers side was louder, this week the pass side was... just took it for a rinse at the car wash in -15C weather and it was pretty quiet on both sides after... am i going crazy here?!

steering rack adjustment bolt on a 95 civic eh? I don't know if tacomas have anything like this? i'm relatively new to these trucks i've only had mine since this past august. little experience with 4x4 trucks in general, i had an 86 4runner for about a year before this one, a 2000 passat and a few 1980's jettas where i taught myself everything i know about turning a wrench to this day.

 

I think all cars have a steering adjustment nut.
I think it can be safely determined that it's probably a vertical issue.
I also had a very annoying clunking noise coming from the driver's rear side of my civic. It would be bad if I went over large potholes and especially cringe worthy if I went up a tilted surface like a driveway with a stepped curb. This suicide-contemplation worthy creak/thunk would be completely silent when it rained or when I went to a carwash. It would be quit for about 4 days. Never figured it out, but thank the heavens it's gone. Water has very mild lubrication properties, so I think that's what's going on in your case. Personally, I'm leaning towards your front end coil suspension, especially since you said they have a reputation of clunking. I would smother everything with a thick grease. Specifically were the strut shoulder/cup is.

 

i agree with you that i think it is a vertical loading/unloading issue. the tilted surface like a steep driveway going up one wheel at a time is definitely where it is most noticeable. I also agree that it feels like it is coming from right around the coil area, I'll have to go around and grease up everything and see if that helps. It is so cold, dry, and salty here it's really hard on everything. i will keep this thread updated as time goes on - i took a video that i will upload before the end of the night here

thank you for taking the time to read this and reply by the way, it's much appreciated!

 

I have pretty much the same noise you're describing. It also happens way more often in below freezing temps. I never hear it during the summer. This leads me to think it's a rubber bushing shrinking in the cold and allowing some sort of play somewhere. Still have not figured it out yet.

 

Ah jeeze, well it is comforting to know others have the same issue without it getting worse over time or becoming a safety issue. There seems to be quite a few threads on this forum regarding 1st gen tacos that 'clunk'. I see you have the OME shocks and 883s, did you do that lift yourself? Curious to know if it made the noise before the susp. change, this is my first winter with my truck and I did not install my OME kit so I wonder if maybe that could be a common factor.

 

I installed the lift myself. It made the noise before changing the suspension. Because of that I'm pretty confident it isn't suspension related, but who knows. I'm still thinking it's a body mount issue. For me, it happens in high body roll situations or going over speed bumps at an angle. Almost sounds like something is rolling around in the bed, except I feel it right under my feet. Like it's moving from one side to the other.

Steering rack bushings and tie rod ends are brand new at the same time as lifting (this past May). I haven't tried disconnecting my swaybar yet but I have a feeling it could be the contributing as that would definitlely be bearing a load during high body roll situations.

 

Ok that is good to know. I do recall the previous owner of my truck saying he had recently replaced the body mounts with 4crawler mounts.. its possible that they could be causing some noise. Also that the front end had been rebuilt after driving into a power pole around 100k KMs.. it is at 208k KMs now and I bought it at 205k KMs. I had the truck inspected at a yota dealership and an independent import 4x4 shop before buying it and neither one found anything bad during the summer.

i also thought it might have been my sway bar but completely removed it and the links and no difference in the noise. I hope one of us figures this out eventually hah

 

here is a video with the sound, driving down the street to my house is super bumpy. there is some dash rattle and the squeak of my shoes on the clutch pedal but i think you can hear the clunking ok. i am going to try tightening the front bumper bolts and front cab body mounts tomorrow, will be a long day at the uni and still really cold out..

 

update: had it into the shop today

found that the middle body mounts (the ones right under where your feet would be when sitting in the truck) did have room for some play in them. you could see where the bushing was slipping/rubbing against the round washer/metal plate on the mount. had that fixed so now both of those body mounts are now solid. also, they are a super stiff material, not your regular rubber, they are apparently 4crawler units, some kind of poly maybe?

unfortunately, while the noise is not as loud as before, it is definitely still there after those were fixed. and it is 100% coming from the outside of the wheel wells, in front of my feet, both sides.

At least I have now confirmed that it is not a safety issue. control arms, TREs and steering rack, ball joints, body mounts, cv axles, u joints, carrier bearing, all good.

im thinking the only place it could be coming from now is either from the spring/shock assembly or something within the hub assembly. could it be wheel bearings??? seems really unlikely but I did notice that there feels like some resistance and a verrry subtle bearing-like noise at highway speeds).

the 881 coils and OME shocks are crazy stiff, if you put a floor jack under the LCA by the LBJ and try to raise it, it will lift the entire truck up while barely compressing the spring. even with the heavy steel plate bumper. ffirg, even though yours made the sound before you installed your susp. there are so many things that could make this kind of noise i don't think i can rule out the possibility that the shock itself could be the cause of this noise. changing out the front susp. isn't really a viable option for me right now.

not sure what to do next, could try paying to have the front wheel bearings replaced, try removing the ARB bumper myself and see if the reduced front stiffness helps quiet things down, still trying to narrow it down to the exact cause..

 

Do you have a pic of where that body mount is? I'm curious on that one now.

Here is a post from BoxRocket in my build thread this morning. This could be the culprit as well and I didn't even think of it.

 

sure i can take one for you in just a bit here

yeah i have felt some minor thuds here and there from the rear end as well, nothing near as bad as the front end though. and that video i posted didnt capture my noise that great but what i'm experiencing there is no way a rear end clunk could transfer that much sound to the front. but those rear leaf spring eye bushings are something i'll have to look at eventually for sure though.

damn bushings, always making a racket hah...

 

I definitely feel it in at my feet, but anything attached to the frame could resonate through the whole truck so it's hard to say. I need to disconnect my swaybar becuase I think that has a LOT to do with it. If I'm driving straight at 15mph and swerve side to side it happens like crazy. That's on flat ground. Could be a body mount too though.