SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Merry Christmas Eve everybody! Hope you all have a great holiday!

Heard from the mechanic yesterday - the good news is they think they might be done early next week, woo hoo! And they saved the piston - said it definitely had a hole all the way through, but the rest of the engine (cylinder head, etc) looked OK. Said cylinder walls looked worn (hatching, or maybe thatching? was worn down/gone). No carbon build up in the head. And all the bearings looked fine - so much for the initial dealer diagnosis!

The bad news is he still doesn't know what caused the hole, other than just saying it's a lean condition. He sent our fuel injectors out to be cleaned/tested, so he's hoping that will wind up being the culprit. I gotta admit, I'm pretty darn nervous knowing that they are in the process of putting a new $$$$ engine in, yet we still don't know what caused this. He didn't really have any thoughts as to why we had an issue at #3 in 2007 and again now, which also concerns me a lot. I suppose #3 injector could be the culprit both times, but why the same one both times? Anyway, he's gonna call as soon as he hears from the injector dude, so hopefully we'll know more on Friday or Monday (they're closed today and tomorrow).

Overall, even though I'm concerned that the cause has not yet been determined, I'm super happy that we might have our Taco back sooner than I'd expected! Just gotta get that cause identified and remedied first!!! Husband was gonna call him on Friday to talk to him directly about some sensor questions, cuz I know he's read some stuff about those possibly being related to all this, and I know you guys have mentioned things about the sensors. I've copied all of you guys' input on sensor stuff into a word doc, and I'll make sure husband and I review it together before he calls. And if anyone has any other thoughts on stuff we should ask about, based on where things are at now (still not sure about cause, and what if injectors are fine?), please please please tell me and we will discuss w/mechanic! Thanks guys and Happy Holidays!

P.S. I forgot to ask him what was causing the noise, since bearings looked fine. I asked if they found the electrode, and he said no, so he suspects it went out the exhaust. Do you guys think the noise was just from the piston hole? So weird.......

 

well to make the sensor question simpler to understand, the sensor gets a reading on whats going on and then it adjust the fuel air mixtures or engine timing (depending on the sensor) to bring things back where you have the correct exhaust enissions coming out not to pollute things and kill all the polar bears .

so if a sensor is bad, or its not reading the correct way because of other issues such as restricted cat convertors or leaks somewhere, it adjusts things in a way that can cause problems, all in order to get the correct emissions, so it can sometimes make the engine run too lean on purpose.

add to this a dirty or restricted injector and a lean condition that isn't harmful to the engine can become a super lean condition that is harmful to the engine but the computer doesn't know what is going on because all it cares about is you have the correct emissions coming out the tail pipe, even if its destroying the engine doing it because it has no way of knowing that.

its because unlike older engines before computers controlled them, nothing is just set a certain way and that's it, instead computers are always trying to adjust things and that's where it causes trouble when sensors go bad or things cause the readings to change, it does what it thinks it needs to do for pollution control and has no idea what its doing to the engine. it just assumes if it keeps the emissions at the right levels then everything must be fine, which often it isn't.

 

Ah, makes sense Keakar! Thanks for the info, gonna have husband read now!

 

Hi guys! Hope you all had a great holiday w/lots of yummy food!

Just talked to the mechanic - he said 2 of the injectors came back bad, woo hoo!!!!!!!!! So so so very happy to hear this - FINALLY we have identified the nasty expensive culprit behind this long nightmare! Ironic to think that 2 $60 injectors failing led to a $5000 repair, wow! Side note, he said we had a bit of leaking from our head gasket, but it definitely wasn't "blown" - yet another wrong call from the dealer, wow.

I have a critical question for you guys, would greatly appreciate any input you guys have on this one -

Someone on this thread suggested that we should consider having an "AFR" (wideband O2 sensor air/fuel ratio gauge) installed, to help us keep an eye on things getting too lean in the future. Now knowing 2 injectors failed us, and suspecting that could have been the cause of the 2007 carbon build up on the plug, coil pack, etc at #3, this certainly seems like it's worth serious consideration. I mentioned this to our mechanic today, and he essentially said it wouldn't be a bad idea for us - not something he normally recommends, but since we've had injector issues that have led to such expensive problems for us, worth considering. He said the part + labor would be an extra $350-400, to mount the gauge, run it through the exhaust (or something like that), etc. We're leaning heavily towards doing it and need to let him know in the next few hours, but I wanted to see what you guys thought first. Would the existing O2 sensor serve the same purpose, as long as we actually pulled the codes in the future anytime we got a check engine light, or would this extra gauge/sensor do something more than that? And if we did the gauge, then someday it showed we were getting too lean, what would we do at that point? Would you test the injectors then w/an ohm/volt meter, or take Taco somewhere to have them cleaned/tested and replaced as needed? Or change the gas type, or use fuel injection cleaner, or ???????? And how fast would a person need to take action if you saw things getting lean - meaning, if we're in some remote area hundreds of miles from services, and see things getting lean, do you start walking til you can call a tow, or is it safe to drive a little longer like that, or ????

Would really appreciate any and all feedback on this guys, hoping some of you have a second to read & post your thoughts! We're gonna google it now, but I'd love to hear all of your thoughts on this too! Thank you so much! Hopefully this will be the last of my frantic "please help" type questions on this thread........although, I probably shouldn't promise that just yet.......

 

I would also consider installing a 10 micron fuel filter assembly under the hood for added protection something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARPAC-MARI..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item43c938a14f&vxp=mtr

they are great when you have dirty gas or any time you need a little extra protection to keep your injectors clean and working good, the filters only cost $10 and the bowl is transparent so you change them once a year or whenever you see trash in there

 

Thats what your oxygen sensors are for.
Did you ever get p0171 or p0174 codes on your tacoma?
I would think with two dead injectors that would surely have been enough to activate the check engine light and throw a lean code... Ive seen a lean code come up over a simple vacuum hose being unplugged.
The only reason i would do a wideband would be if you were running a supercharger, turbo or nitrous.. On a stock n/a daily driver id just keep an eye on your check engine light, if it comes on do some investigating as to find out why instead of throwing a piece of black tape over it...
Your factory obdII system would be fine.
If you ever do get a lean code then ohm your injectors, test fuel pressure, look for vac leaks etc.
Replace your fuel filter also... Running around with a dirty or clogged filter can kill a fuel system as well.

 

Since you are taking your truck so seriously. Have you considered running a Scan Gauge II or an ultra gauge?

For an extra $100 or so bucks, you would be able to monitor your engine in real time. I run a SGII 100% of the time. I love being able to read just about all sensors at any time I want.

In addition, when and if a CEL light pops up, you can get the code immediate ly. I for one would not feel like I'm in the dark. We want and love to help, but can use all the clues we can get.

Later

Kirk

 

Thanks guys! All helpful info as usual! Really appreciate it! We decided to go ahead with the sensor - we figured we're in this deep $ anyway, so it seems worth a little extra to have a something that will kinda be like a giant flashing neon sign in our faces to tell us BEFORE devastation occurs in the future, should we ever run too lean again. Sounds like we might have Taco back (and evil little piston) next week, hurray!!!!! Will post pics for sure! Thanks again Taco buddies!

P.S. Keakar, you didn't receive the cookies? All the other guys said they received theirs already - that's weird!?!?!?

Ha ha, JK Guess Santa ate 'em all..........

 

ok, im water boarding that mailman next time he comes around

I will find out where those cookies went

 

No water boarding,,no touching,,no looking. You have to laugh it out of him by tickling nowadays.

 

+1

 

Yeah, in reading more about this sensor, it kinda looks like something a race car type driver would use, rather than a boring middle aged couple using their Taco for home improvement supply runs, vacations centered around hiking, and hauling Costco stuff! Ah well, I guess she'll just be a slightly souped up grocery mobile now?!?!?

I saw your point Knuckleduster, about the existing O2 sensor pretty much eliminating the need for the extra thing, but since we were dumb enough to ignore CEL before, and it led to a really expensive lesson, it seemed like perhaps this extra thing could be worthwhile "insurance" to protect ourselves from our own idiotness. Not that we have any intention of EVER ignoring that light again, but now realizing that those codes can disappear if enough time passes before ya check 'em, I could see possibly being in a tight spot w/being out in the boonies and not checking them immediately, then being worried about them going away.....

Kirk, I like the sound of the gauge you mentioned, sounds like the ultimate way to stay constantly tuned into WTF's going on under the hood! Will take a closer look at it w/husband this weekend.....

OK, OK Keakar, if the mailman's life is in danger now, I guess it's time to fess up - no cookies were sent out. Sorry man! They weren't that good anyway! Well, that's not really true, but I'm trying to come up w/something........hmmm........hmmmm.......I got nothin man, except sorry dude! How bout some more fun little dancing guys to make up for it?

 

Get the scan guage or ultra guage, its a much more useful tool than a wideband o2 sensor that probably cost about the same.
It will tell you every code the engine has not just what your fuel system in doing.

http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/TEN/trouble_codes.htm


http://www.scangauge.com/products/scangaugeii/

 

Do you have a smart phone?

What about a <$10 OBDII Bluetooth adapter and the free Torque app?

 

Not as useful. I tried out the Tourque app. It is very useful, but distracting to drive with.

 

NO COOKIES !!!!!! OMG!

now what do I do with the mailman who is already duct taped and stuffed into the closet?

well I hope we at least get some great pics of you playing in the mud with your baby?

 

You could post some videos of you beating him up with a shit filled tube sock-
or go buy a gerbil or two.... If your into that sort of thing
J/k

 

first rule of black ops is never leave any evidence lol

but here is a video of my partner who captured the mailman for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UXfME7Bsjo

 

here is something to make you smile while you wait to get your baby back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tntOCGkgt98&feature=player_embedded

 

Ha! Great videos Keakar, that cat is ferocious!

I wonder what people will think when they have similar problems w/their truck and a google search brings up this thread for them????? I suppose they'll get to learn from our truck problem, plus get a whole lot more excitement they hadn't planned on as well? "spun rod bearing vs spark plug electrode bouncing around" = crude mailman jokes, evil cats, truck cookies made w/a tin can, political wars over fuel issues, debates over the value going to a dealer vs elsewhere, polar bear & emissions issues, coat hanger/duct tape/shop vac electrode retrieval lessons.........there's no doubt that this thread has done a hell of a lot more than help me solve my Taco problems, it's kept me damn entertained in the meantime too!