SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Jen, Maybe you could do a shoutout to your local Tacoma World members for a hand in this. If you were in Texas and somewhat local, I would be all for helping you and your husband out.

 

do you HAVE to strip it down to a short block before hoisting?

no, but people do this to reduce the weight that is being lifted and moved around but it doesn't matter and you can pull it as a complete engine after the intake and exhaust manifolds and all the pulleys and stuff on the front of the engine are removed.

for the shed floor I would lay down a 3/4" plywood on the floor as a work surface no matter what the floor is made of since it will get very dirty and get scuffed up with gouges from turning tilting and rolling the engine over so why do that to your shed floor? plus it creates a fresh clean work surface along with added strength to support the weight to be sure you don't crack the floor when turning tilting the engine.

the engine stand is very handy but by no means necessary so I wouldnt waste money to buy one unless you plan on building several engines. if you can borrow one, great but I cant recommend buying one.

the engine hoist can be rented so do that rather then buy one, after all what are you going to do with it after? rent it for one day to pull the engine and one day to drop it back in and you don't waste money buying it only to sell it for nothing or literally give it away when you are done just to get it out of your way. lay down full 4ft x 8ft sheet of 3/4 plywood for the hoist (it needs solid level surface to roll on and move around) because you are on gravel you need to think of it as stationary and roll the truck (NOT THE HOIST) to make anything other then very minor adjustments and roll the truck back out of the way once engine is out and hanging free. maybe you can reuse the same plywood on floor of shed to work on.

its not the best solution but ... if you have a tree with a large branch to use then a come-along can be used to pull the engine then roll the truck back and set the engine down on a cart to avoid needing a hoist at all but the engine hoist rental is well worth it and makes this job easier so I mention this only if "renting" an engine hoist is problematic.

for moving the engine to the shed get one on these: you can use the lawn mower to pull it around and it can handle the weight, when you are done its great to have for hauling anything around the yard, even kids lol.

I suggest you do the actual pull and move when you have time for friends to come help so get it all unhooked and loose ready to come out and then call a few friends over for beers and say "oh by the way, while you guys are already here, can you help us move this thing" lol. cold beer and free food goes a long way.

 

The 4cyl is pretty light but the space under hood is a little sparse. I pulled mine as a short block because I had already removed the top, dropped the replacement in with all the pulleys and brackets attached.

Going back in was a pain, it took 2 of us a couple hours just getting things aligned before the engine would actually slide into place to be bolted up.

 

pulleys and brackets should always be left off until after the motor is bolted back into place, makes life soo much easier that way and you don't get things hung up on the pulleys or have things in your way blocking you field of view to line things up.

 

this guy has some really good videos you should watch:

engine noise diagnosis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBA1zC5duuI&list=UUnIQ-_hRpyHR68f23dQQHUg

cylinder head replacement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06l5jHMZt0Y

and this one which is for v8 but very informative for the engine rebuild tips, technics, and tricks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1qBJ8ZeOUA&list=UUnIQ-_hRpyHR68f23dQQHUg

 

Ok, you guys might kill me........now leaning back the other way to having someone do the whole thing. I feel super lame saying that after my long speech (last post) about DIYing it, but husband has heard too many horror stories/seen too many horror videos about engine swaps going bad for beginners, and that coupled w/no garage and sloped gravel driveway and the damn rain just freaks us out. You guys in the south, it rains almost daily here from October to June. And I mean heavy rain. For like 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sometimes. I promise, someday we'll make a decision!! I just feel like I gotta think very carefully about this due to $$$$ and crazy enormous love for the Taco.

If cost was same, warranty virtually same, and both places claimed to use OEM parts whenever possible, would you guys choose the mechanic that would install someone else's remanufactured engine, or choose the mechanic who'd have ours rebuilt at machine shop then put it back in?

The place that would rebuild ours would "undress" long block, take long block out, send it to machine shop, they'd rip it apart/rebuild it into a "new long block", send it back to mechanic, who'd then install/dress it. And that place appears to do a variety of repairs, probably more trannys and routine stuff than engines, on a variety of japanese autos. They claim the machine shop they use does excellent, precise work. But what if the shop opened up our engine and found our short block was cracked, or the crank (crank journal?) was shot (needed too much machining, like BamaToy had said) - wouldn't we be in a world of hurt at that point, like now we owe the shop/mechanic for labor to find that out, and have no engine? That mechanic is long established, with employees, clean/professional, and yet almost snobby/condescending/caters to a wealthier clientele than me, and therefore I'd normally NEVER go there, but I'm considering ALL options (can you tell? ) for something this important and expensive. He basically tried to talk me out of doing the engine, cuz he said w/195,000, my tranny is likely about to die and will cost 2500-3000. Easy for him to say - bet he'd have a lot easier time affording a new truck payment than we would.

Other guy would take our engine and it's "dressing" out, then put in a "new" dressed long block. He only does toyotas, and I think maybe only tacos/tundras/4runners, or at least mostly those. And I think he does mostly engine stuff, and some routine stuff. Younger guy, only been in business a few years, I think might be a one man show - definitely looks like the guy LOVES tacos/tundras/4runners A LOT. Could see him being quick to fly off handle if issues came up, but really like that he loves tacos so much, and is more down to earth than Mr. Snobby Guy.

Which one would you choose?

Thanks for the additional advice on the DIY route guys - still haven't ruled it out 100% but definitely looking like a tough road to go for us. Will definitely check out those videos, even if we don't DIY the engine, cuz it's so helpful to understand this stuff better, even just to make talking to the mechanics easier/more productive, especially as a female. And yes, I wish you guys lived in Oregon, we'd totally take ya up on the help!

Oh, and I actually did post on the NW forum section of tacoworld, but not a single reply. Guess they don't like my super long detailed posts and 5 billion questions, too much reading for 'em.

 

I think the euphoria of all the alleged "help" is wearing off and you are starting to come around to a more realistic and mature view.
I have done countless "driveway" swaps and way north of 100 professional (for money and warrantied) performance oriented "crank up" engine builds, gas and diesel (there's a mouthful). While it is an entirely possible project, in the end most newish folks that give it a shot as a one time thing will say "should have paid someone else".
Save money by doing as much of the foot work and parts acquisition/delivery as you can. You and your marriage will be happier.

 

if you are having serious misgivings then get a good working engine from a salvage yard wrecked truck (so you know it was running when brought to the salvage yard) and then decide if YOU want to put the engine in yourself or have a shop do it. since they aren't doing the engine work, its a simple job and a high $ skill level isn't required for that job.

I honestly cant see the point in buying a new engine because of the obscene prices when a running engine from salvage yard will give you another 250k miles out of it for around $800-$1,000. and I would NEVER buy a rebuilt motor because you cant trust them unless you know who rebuilt it personally. those motor rebuild shops do bare minimum jobs and those engines cost way too much and just don't last more then 100k miles in my personal experience.

 

It is an extensive task,,and it makes it more extensive the first time around.

Literally blood, sweat and,,,emotions,,lets say.

If you guys do decide to tackle it Jen, you guys need the time and covered area to be able to let it sit for a bit,,as parts and pieces are ran down, stuff getting machined if needed, ect. It can take a bit longer sometimes than one anticipates.

Very cool that you did the research. That alone saves you money. Now you have a much better idea of what it involves and what it should cost,,or a better understanding of what it could cost.

If you do decide on Mr "down to earth" guy to do the work, make sure he keeps you appraised of any extensive additions to the quoted cost. Extensive being extremely outside of the quoted price (say $250-500 max,,to keep him honest).

 

Thanks for the input guys.

Dirty Pool, yes, saving marriage is high on the "pro" list for having someone else do the whole thing - would hate to get into a nasty blame game when things go wrong on something major like this, which they inevitably will.

Keakar, from what I've seen/heard on used engines, they have 100-150,000 miles on them, so how could we expect to get another 250,000? Sounds great, but do you really think so? And wouldn't we always be wondering how good of condition it was really in, since it's internal components weren't inspected? That would be much more appealing if it was gonna be a truck that just took us on local errands, and/or if we planned to sell it soon. But we are hoping to make it trustworthy enough to take on vacations like we used to, ideally for years and years into the future......and our idea of vacation is driving out to the middle of nowhere, mountains, back roads, etc, and basically she takes a fair amount of abuse in those scenarios (super rough dirt/gravel roads, loaded down w/stuff), and when we're out of cell range down in some remote canyon or up in the woods, we wanna trust that we won't have engine prob's. I realize there's no guarantee with any route you take w/a car, even a brand new one really, but wouldn't there be more of an assurance of no problems w/a rebuilt motor more than a used one? Trust me, I'm with ya on hating the price difference between rebuilt vs. used, but I feel like if we're gonna dump $1000 (prices I've seen on used motors), that's a good chunk of change, so spending $3300 on a rebuilt seems worth the extra to get that assurance. But I don't know, this is still all very new to me, so very well could be looking at it all wrong. Thoughts? Husband talked to a buddy that said he knew a guy that knew how to get super low miles used engines from Japan. Sounds too good to be true, but we were reading about how they dump their cars after 30-50,000 miles over there due to weird emissions rules or something. Now, a used engine w/30,000 miles, compared to one w/130,000 sounds a lot different, and that's something I'd def. consider. If only I knew how to get a motor like that - guessing this "guy knows a guy" thing won't pan out - rarely does. But worth investigating anyway, I got nothin but time to research my Taco's best remedy. You guys ever heard of that Japan thing?

 

absolutely, these engine can go 400k miles and often do. read this thread: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/199755-life-span-3-4l.html

you just got unlucky with yours, most times not changing oil regularly makes them fail but if you change oil regularly these engines last forever but there is always the freak failure with anything.

as to trusting it, its like buying a used truck so you have to check things out to be sure about it. that's why you buy a wrecked truck engine instead of one just sitting in someones garage or shed, because think about it for a second, it cant be wrecked if it wasn't in running and driving condition at the time so you know it works. if its out of the truck then you are right to be leary about it because maybe it was pulled out because it had issues so avoid those at all cost unless they can hook it up for you to hear and see it run for as good 15 minutes to hear it run when fully warmed up. (some engine noises "tapping" only happen after the engine is fully warmed up)

the mileage tips you off to how much wear it might have and the condition of the interior of the wrecked truck tells you how much the owner took care of it to tip you off if it was well maintained.

when selecting the engine ask to hear it run and make sure it doesn't smoke. engines that haven't run for a while can smoke art first start but it should not smoke anymore after that and put your hand by the tailpipe then smell it, it should not smell like oil.

also check the oil level and color to be sure its in good shape and doesn't smell burnt.

lastly if everything else looks good and you want to buy it, then do a compression test on all cylinders and if they are no big difference across all of them, then that will tell you everything in the engine is in good sound working order and the engine is in great shape. no engine is perfect but they should all be very close to each other like within around 5-10 lbs. at most. if you see all of them read about the same in the range from 150-125 lbs compression, then the engine has very good compression and the closer it is to 150 the better then average the engine is .

do this and you can be as sure, if not more sure, about that engine then you could be with anything that came in a used truck when you bought it. (unless you bought it new)

 

Mod, just noticed you're in WA - know anything about (EDITED - SEE BELOW)? Any recc' for good mechanics for Taco engine stuff in the NW?

From your post, it sounds like you did your own engine? You make a good point about somewhere to spread stuff out while this all goes on - that was actually one of husband's main concerns. We are just limited on clean, DRY space for a project like this, even w/our shed - because of course it's already jammed to the gills w/tons of incomplete projects in process, crap that doesn't fit in the house, etc. Even if we cleaned all that up, it's still gonna be a tight space for an engine project and then all that other crap has to sit in limbo in the meantime. Grrrr, why can't cars just never have problems? Fine, just Tacos. And dogs live forever. That's all I'm asking for, is that too much?????????

EDIT: I've deleted the name of the business that replaced our engine from this post, because problems developed with the truck after the work they performed, and those problems are still in the process of being diagnosed as of today 2/4/15. Until I have a full clear picture of what these issue are and what caused them, I do not want to recommend or speak poorly of their business. Thanks.

 

I second this. Be sure to nail down exactly what anyone says. Used, new and rebuilt obviously are different things. It should not be hard to see how a fellow could say "new" but mean the "new to you" engine.
Keep up the research, you are doing good.

The low mileage "Japan" engines and their "tough emissions" thing can be a double edged sword. Many times there are subtle differences to US market engines requiring more parts to be retained from the original (labor). Then some folks will will say "stay away, they run the crap out of them and skimp on maintenance cause they know they will have to replace them any way". I would stick with domestic, be it new, used or rebuilt.

 

Sounds like you need a welfare meeting(yard sale). And your not alone,,my 60x60 shop is packed with a pickers paradise and boxes of storage crap. Barely enough room now to get stuff torn down and fixed in a timely manner. It is nice not standing up to my knees in muck changing heavy stuff out for replacement. Trying to drag/shove the engine picker across river boulders to position it. Blahh,,sucks.

Where are you located at Jen?. Tualatin?

 

if you are too leary of trusting your own judgement, there are these engines: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&_nkw=toyota+3.4+v6+engine&=&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=4

they come with warranties and you can check on these companies with BBB to be sure they are trustworthy. most times these engines come with all accessories still attached like belts, hoses, and pulleys, and even sometimes to get power steering pumps and alternators as well.

most cost around $250-$400 extra for shipping and as DP mentioned, there might be differences in Japanese engines vs USA engines as to emissions and such so look at buying American sourced engines and nothing imported from japan.

if you were my family I would say get this one fast before its sold: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-95-04-T...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce6762d69&vxp=mtr

I think you have to switch your manifolds on it to fit the USA emissions stuff but its as close to new as you are ever going to get to a brand new motor (50k miles with a 90 day warranty) without spending a fortune and its a great price. just the extras bolted onto the engine already are worth around $800 (A/C, PS, Alternator, fan, fan clutch, pulleys, injector rail with injectors, throttle body, sensors and wiring harness, manifolds, coil packs, and on and on).

you would spend that much just trying to rebuild yours if nothing much was wrong with it.

then you just have to decide if you are doing it or to have it shipped to the shop of your choice and let them install it.

when you are done all those extra parts from your old engine that you don't want to keep for spare parts can be sold here or on ebay and im sure you can get around $750 or more for them to offset some of the cost of the new engine.

 

I know it hasn't been discussed yet, but some junkyards do the replacement for you. There are two near me that only sell and warranty the parts that they put in. +/- $2000 for engine swap around here. I'm not sure how many junkyards in Oregon would do this, but you might call around.

 

that is an option, and this is just my opinion here, but anyone working at the salvage yard cant be much of a mechanic or they would have a job as a real mechanic.

there is a big difference in being able to strip cars and remove parts without breaking them and putting them on correctly in a professional manner to get maximum life out of the parts.

i view letting a salvage yard do it right up there with letting jiffy lube rebuild your engine, can they do it? sure but would you want it done by them? hell no, not if your smart.

even though there isn't much skill level involved in swapping engines, I wouldn't want to risk having them break something or cross thread or strip bolts in things or not tighten things down correctly

 

I don't know that number either,,but if it was to happen I would have be real good friends with the owner of the yard and his grease minions. Reclaimer mechanic doesn't USUALLY mean a idiot,,but he's not top shelf either. Some are just kids starting out learning what they can and have a pocket of bucks for the winter, a few scraps from the yard to keep there junk running. He's mostly a rusty bolt puller, gasket scraper,,dealer of carnage with the cutting torch,,all that fun.

All that said,,it doesn't hurt to ask and check for a reaction. They for sure,, would know a guy who would be reputable at a higher degree, or just help in pointing you in a good direction. One of there toyota customers possibly.

I could see that in New Mexico,,a yard that does excellent work on the side. Good folks down there. Have been told that Texas is the same way. Not so much up here as far as yards wanting the extra insurance rider attached or dealing with it in general, sadly.

 

OP, I can totally get the feeling of being overwhelmed by all this information at once. that is one of the reasons I suggested doing a LOT of research and reading before you make a decision. Cold hard truth. Being blunt and brutal here:

Without knowing what is going on in the cylinder that has the missing electrode, you can only make a guess at what could be the extent of any damage. you already know that you have a rod knock, so at a minimum the crank will need to be worked, and new bearings installed. If there is damage to the piston, or the head, or a major gouge in the cylinder wall of the electrode cylinder, then you will be looking at a MUCH larger repair bill, as you have discussed. To be honest, if I were you I would consider either a JDM used engine with low miles, or one of the remanufactured ones I mentioned and linked earlier. I have been building and rebuilding engines for over 30 years now, and I have seen some nightmares, and I have seen some that were THOUGHT to be nightmares, but were simple repairs. The truth is you have NO idea what it would cost to get your current engine rebuilt without having it taken apart and inspected. That costs money, of which I am pretty sure from the way you have been talking is not exactly abundant right now.

Another option that you have is to do PART of the job yourself. Pull the heads, and inspect for the damage yourself. You are only out time at that point. Then, if the heads are in good shape, and the block is rebuildable, you can pull the short block out easily enough, take it to a machine shop, and get them to build it for you, then reinstall and put the heads back on. No, it is not an EASY task, but is one that can be accomplished.

Now I just paused writing this to do a little looking in your general area. From your postings I am assuming you are not far from Portland? There is a shop there called B&M Engines

5243 SE 77th Avenue, Portland, OR 97206
(503) 255-3220

They show to offer a Toyota reman 3.0 engine exchange for only $1695. It is a similar engine to the 3.4, so a similar price would be in the ballpark. They also offer installation services of their engines. Maybe give them a call and ask them for prices? I mean if you are already looking at $1200 for a used engine with 50k miles on it, spending an extra $400 would be WELL worth it to get one with zero miles. I usually am open to just offering general tips and advice here as I can, but I am willing to step into the fire here. If you need any help, information, or tips, feel free to contact me. My contact information is on my website at www.marionbumper2bumper.com.
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I've changed engines and assembled engines after the machine work was finished. I would much rather have a used original factory engine than an unknown rebuild assembled by someone else. Mass production engine rebuilders do a low quality job, they don't keep the part the factory made an effort to match together and they re-use parts that should be replaced. Perhaps that's why the guy said his rebuild was only good for 100,000 miles?

I have also found a huge difference in price between machine shops for the same work, like 2 times.