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FEELER: 2 inch thick 2.7 intake manifold spacer

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsenoff View Post
depending on price I MAY be in on this in a year or so.... If they are still being made than... If not than I am SOL
That's fine.
I'll be having spacers made on an ongoing as-needed basis so they'll always be available.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by allmotorrex View Post
Put me down. The price has to be pretty low though for such minimal gains. I'm still interested though
I'm glad you brought up the issue of cost versus gains because it's worth addressing. How do you feel about the $215 (group) price charged for a 1/2 inch thick spacer that produces one quarter of the effect of a 2 inch thick spacer?

It's good to be aware of expectations before you decide to purchase anything, and not just this product. The tooter won't magically transform your truck into a wheel spinning monster. It's just a simple passive bolt on accessory.

2 inch longer intake runners only lower the torque peak by 250 rpm while the increased total intake manifold volume fattens up the curve a little at the torque peak. And it does this while retaining the top end horsepower. So you will get exactly what the comparative dyno charts show.

This is one reason I was such a stickler for testing as accurately as I could. So that you would already know the gains before you even decided whether or not to buy. Then you're perfectly free to choose for yourself what you are willing to give for what you get.

This is the beauty of Capitalism... the most benevolent ethical economic system on the face of this Earth: Freedom of association. The freedom to transact equitable value for value exchanges with others for the mutual benefit of all parties involved. You as the consumer hold all the power, because it is completely your own free choice whether or not to purchase anything. My job as a Capitalist is to produce something that might be of useful benefit to you, because that is also of useful benefit to me.

Notice that this is not a zero sum system.

Value is actually created from nothing.

The people who make and sell the nylon blocks make a profit. The people who make and sell the hardware and gaskets make a profit. The CNC engineer makes a profit for his expertise in machining the spacers. I make a profit for risking my own money to fund the whole project up front and for offering the spacers for sale. Even the shipper makes a profit. And only if you feel that what you get is worth what you pay, you also profit from the benefits of the product.

See how everyone wins?
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
I'm glad you brought up the issue of cost versus gains because it's worth addressing. How do you feel about the $215 (group) price charged for a 1/2 inch thick spacer that produces one quarter of the effect of a 2 inch thick spacer?
Haha well let's just say I'm lost at why anyone would pay anything for literally no positive gain. And I know you are well aware that just because the hours in r&d were put in doesnt make something worth a lot of money. Results are everything. I'm glad that you showed some results cause I know it sucks to put time, effort, and money into something and it turn out worthless.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotorrex View Post
Haha well let's just say I'm lost at why anyone would pay anything for literally no positive gain. And I know you are well aware that just because the hours in r&d were put in doesnt make something worth a lot of money. Results are everything. I'm glad that you showed some results cause I know it sucks to put time, effort, and money into something and it turn out worthless.
But he had results that are dyno proven

To make it short and sweet:
No, there is no hp/Torque number gains

What is gained tho is that the torque curve is brought on in lower RPM which means you get in your powerband quicker and provides better acceleration. Can he go 130mph now? No. But he can get to 100mph quicker than before.

Make sense??
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
But he had results that are dyno proven

To make it short and sweet:
No, there is no hp/Torque number gains

What is gained tho is that the torque curve is brought on in lower RPM which means you get in your powerband quicker and provides better acceleration. Can he go 130mph now? No. But he can get to 100mph quicker than before.

Make sense??
Huh? My first sentence isn't referring to tooter. Read young one. He asked me a question
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:26 AM   #26
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I'm interested in finding out more.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
But he had results that are dyno proven

To make it short and sweet:
No, there is no hp/Torque number gains
I saw a nice TQ increase between 2.8-3.2K which would benefit my driving as thats around my shift point now for keeping up with traffic from a light.

What is gained tho is that the torque curve is brought on in lower RPM which means you get in your powerband quicker and provides better acceleration. Can he go 130mph now? No. But he can get to 100mph quicker than before.

Make sense??
I see a personal gain for me from his dyno sheet that fits my driving style.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotorrex View Post
I'm glad that you showed some results cause I know it sucks to put time, effort, and money into something and it turn out worthless.
That's one reason I went for the absolutely thickest spacer that would fit within the available space. To make damn sure that it would actually yield a measurable difference. Even at 2 inches the difference is already modest enough, so at one inch or a half inch, the results would have been unconvincingly anemic.

And since everything else is essentially the same except for material costs, a 2 inch spacer gives you the best bang for the buck.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:30 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 tacoma View Post
I'm interested in finding out more.
Ok.
I'll add you to the list. It's not a commitment to buy, just an expression of your interest to help me decide approximately how many spacers will be made.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08pretaco View Post
I see a personal gain for me from his dyno sheet that fits my driving style.
I'll also add your name to the list.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
I'll also add your name to the list.
If I was keeping my truck I would be all over this.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:08 AM   #32
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Did you ever decide if it helped/hurt your mpg?
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:27 AM   #33
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08pretaco View Post
If I was keeping my truck I would be all over this.
Ok. I'll take you off.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camojared View Post
Did you ever decide if it helped/hurt your mpg?
Hadn't done that yet, but just now added up the mileage logs. It's only a very slight increase of 1.6 mpg.

533 miles @22.36 gallons with no spacer 23.8 mpg
519 miles @ 20.388 gallons with the spacer 25.4 mpg

I should be able to get a more accurate profile with more miles driven. From the results, at least I'm sure that it didn't hurt the gas mileage any.

I think the most interesting effect doesn't show up on the dyno charts because they can't go that low. It's starting out slipping the clutch from a full stop. The engine pulls nicely at very low rpms, even below idle speed without stalling, so it doesn't hardly take any throttle to get the truck moving, even with my 5 lug's really high street 3.31 final gearing. This makes it really easy on the clutch, and I think that over time it will last longer.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:24 AM   #36
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I have the 4x4, I wonder if it would lower the tq curve even further bc of gearing.

Did you notice a mpg difference after you added the lce header?
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:45 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camojared View Post
I have the 4x4, I wonder if it would lower the tq curve even further bc of gearing.
Gearing can't alter the torque curve of the engine. However, gearing can alter how your truck performs. Torque feels different than horsepower.

Horsepower is the ability to gain rpms rapidly... the ability to accelerate.

While torque is the ability to hold a given rpm under a heavy load... the ability to pull.

Quote:
Did you notice a mpg difference after you added the lce header?
Couldn't really tell...

... because I bought the truck on April 13th
and installed the header on the 19th!
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:30 AM   #38
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Sooooooo interested for the right price ( I'd prolly pay in the 100-200 range)


I do some mild trailering and a lot of driven like a bat out of hell so I'd love more torque in the lower rpm
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
Gearing can't alter the torque curve of the engine. However, gearing can alter how your truck performs. Torque feels different than horsepower.

Horsepower is the ability to gain rpms rapidly... the ability to accelerate.

While torque is the ability to hold a given rpm under a heavy load... the ability to pull.



Couldn't really tell...

... because I bought the truck on April 13th
and installed the header on the 19th!
Yea I guess not really lower it but starting/crawling would be even easier than a street geared taco.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camojared View Post
Yea I guess not really lower it but starting/crawling would be even easier than a street geared taco.
Absolutely...
...because with lower gearing, the engine has more mechanical advantage (leverage) over the wheels. For heavier vehicles with heavy large diameter off road wheels, lower gearing offers a tremendous advantage and makes far more difference than any spacer.
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