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converting Sport Model to A-TRAC

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Old 12-08-2010, 11:16 AM   #21
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A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks).

Conversion is not practical - I thought it through as well. For the money, you can put air lockers in and be better off.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:18 AM   #22
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
You will also need to run new brake lines - not the rubber ones the hard lines.

If you really want a list for a mod that will never be done Ill start writing.........

This thread reminds me of: I'm swapping out my engine for a V-8...anyone got a list of needed parts?
If you have the ability/knowledge, please start writing. BTW, this is nothing like asking for a list of parts for a v-8 pulled froma '69 chevy swap... it is more akin to asking, "hey the 09 in xyz trim came with heated, turn signal, curtesy light mirrors and my truck doesn't have them. What parts are required to add them in myself?".


Based on the info here: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/att...-2009brake.pdf

It appears to be a Combination meter (if you want the lights), A-Trac switch (or any switch for that matter), Skid Control ECU, Hydraulic Brake Booster Module, rear-diff switch (any switch to simulate a rear diff), potential wiring harness modifications, and maybe an ECU.

Do the O.R. models have have 100% hard lines?
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
That is correct...

In H4 you have TRAC and that is awesome in high range... A-TRAC is the Low Range traction control and it does brake harder any loose tire for über traction control, like lockers provide.

To the OP: If you are going for front and rear lockers, then make sure they are selectable so you can turn them off for steering. The A-TRAC automatically locks/ unlocks loose tires so steering isn't affected, but because of that it makes quite a bit of noise when operating (only when there is slippage, not all the time it is activated).

As much of a fan of A-TRAC that I am, I see no reason (at all) for doing this if it were possible. The after-market lockers you say you are going to get, will get you everywhere.

You could have saved a fortune buying an Off Road as it has the rear locker and A-TRAC. But, if you had to have the longer bed and didn't want the bed extender, I see why the Sport... But surely not for the fake hood scoop and colored bumpers?

If you succeed in installing the A-TRAC, then there is no need for the after-market lockers. A-TRAC provides the traction of lockers, but it makes noise... and isn't "smooth", which seems to bother some here who have front lockers.

I kind of think changing your differentials will be easier than adding A-TRAC to a Sport... But, I would be curious to follow you on this. Maybe search to find if anyone in Japan or anywhere has done it already?

Good luck!
Thanks for the great reply.

The lockers will be ARBS with ECGS doing the install with 4.56s. There was never a question about that. I wouldn't dare put a non-selectable locker in a daily driver let alone an IFS!

The Sport was because I considered 4 doors mandatory as well as the bigger bed. My truck is used as a truck AND a people carry. I had another truck with a longer bed and 2 seats that the Tacoma replaced. I regularly use the bed to haul and couldn't imagine it being any smaller than it already is!

As far as bumpers go... I have a Line-X'd front and rear All-pro.


This was me ...pretty stuck. Yay for winches and trees.

I'm an engineer by education and trade, so this post was a fact gathering missions so that I might make a determination if it was possible. Obviously, with enough money and determination, you can do anything...

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Old 12-08-2010, 11:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks).
Absolutely incorrect. I spent almost all of last Saturday with it on, and it ONLY needed to kick in in crawl sections where one wheel was losing traction, either from being off the ground or breaking loose...this was mostly over mud-slicked rocks in 4Lo 1st or 2nd gear.

Quote:
Conversion is not practical - I thought it through as well. For the money, you can put air lockers in and be better off.
Absolutely correct.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks).
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2010/...n-control.html
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks). ...
Wow.... Thanks for making it clear why I must not give up my crusade to educate Tacoma owners (who don't have A-TRAC or don't understand their A-TRAC) on how it works.

Seriously, we drive Toyotas because of how good they build trucks, right? Would Toyota put A-TRAC in the Tacoma unless it could perform?

Well, the A-TRAC works at any speed you would want to drive in LOW RANGE... which is usually under 25 mph, because the low range is for crawaing over/ through, up or down difficult terrain... Get it:? CRAWLING...

Who is on the gas in low range... except when climbing steep hills?! There's a video of me taking a run up a steep, dusty hill... and when my upward momentum came to a crawl... THAT, is when the A-TRAC took over and began transfering torque to the tires with traction... biting and biting with all fours until it pulled my truck to the top.

In Baja, the Widowmaker grade near Mision Santa Maria is a rocky CRAWL grade... and A-TRAC performed flawlessly... Previous trips with my other Tacomas, I used the rear locker to climb the Widowmaker and other grades on that road.

A-TRAC, it isn't just for breakfast anymore!
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Absolutely incorrect. I spent almost all of last Saturday with it on, and it ONLY needed to kick in in crawl sections where one wheel was losing traction, either from being off the ground or breaking loose...this was mostly over mud-slicked rocks in 4Lo 1st or 2nd gear.



Absolutely correct.
It requires wheel slippage to activate.

On the rocks (real rocks - boulders), spinning wheels is a great way to break things.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks). ...
Thanks a lot mxpatriot now you have done it...
Quote:
Wow.... Thanks for making it clear why I must not give up my crusade to educate Tacoma owners (who don't have A-TRAC or don't understand their A-TRAC) on how it works.

There goes the thread...
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
It requires wheel slippage to activate.

On the rocks (real rocks - boulders), spinning wheels is a great way to break things.
The only thing going on are the brakes locking up the wheel that has no traction. Nothing can really break unless you are at full lock on a rock and you punch it or something but that will brake most vehicles.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
The only thing going on are the brakes locking up the wheel that has no traction. Nothing can really break unless you are at full lock on a rock and you punch it or something but that will brake most vehicles.
To get the brake to lock the wheel up and transfer power, it needs to detect slippage. When you're in a giant pile of boulders, wheel slippage causes the vehicle to bounce and abruptly crown boulders and slam the vehicle down on them. I'm talking big rocks here, rock crawling.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
It requires wheel slippage to activate.

On the rocks (real rocks - boulders), spinning wheels is a great way to break things.
That is the point... A-TRAC doesn't allow slippage, it matches wheel rotation across the axle so the loose tire rotates the same speed as the traction tire... as if it were a locker.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
To get the brake to lock the wheel up and transfer power, it needs to detect slippage. When you're in a giant pile of boulders, wheel slippage causes the vehicle to bounce and abruptly crown boulders and slam the vehicle down on them. I'm talking big rocks here, rock crawling.
Well if you start bouncing then you are using too much throttle anyway. You don't have to use a lot of throttle to get the system to work but it does work better with more throttle. Most obstacles I switch on the system and start with light throttle working up to more throttle until I begin to move.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
That is the point... A-TRAC doesn't allow slippage, it matches wheel rotation across the axle so the loose tire rotates the same speed as the traction tire... as if it were a locker.
No it doesn't. It quickly pulses the brakes to stop one wheel from spinning, which transfers the power to the other wheel, which gives the vehicle more traction. That's not the same as forcing both wheels to turn with each other at the same speed and same time (mechanical locker).

If you can explain to me how applying the brakes to one wheel makes both wheels rotate at the same speed, at the same time, under power, I'll send you a "Master of Defying Physics/Open Differentials" trophy.

The brake pulsing action is enough to overcome most obstacles - but it does not compare to a mechanical locker for rock crawling applications. That's all I've ever said. 99% of guys on this forum, let alone general tacoma owners, will rock crawl their Tacoma so it's not even that big of an issue!
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks) .
disagree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
Conversion is not practical - I thought it through as well. For the money, you can put air lockers in and be better off.
agree
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
It requires wheel slippage to activate.
No, it requires a difference in wheel speed rotation in the same differential. Difference.

Quote:
On the rocks (real rocks - boulders), spinning wheels is a great way to break things.
Which is why it stops that from happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
No it doesn't. It quickly pulses the brakes to stop one wheel from spinning, which transfers the power to the other wheel, which gives the vehicle more traction. That's not the same as forcing both wheels to turn with each other at the same speed and same time (mechanical locker).
No, it doesn't pulse. It clamps. It uses the brakes to stop the wheel. I don't know that it will perform exactly like a locker in all situations, but it's pretty damn close on a slick muddy/rocky trail. I was skeptical of A-TRAC til' I used it.

Have a comparison of two videos. The first is Namyo running the bowl on Dickie Bell with his rear diff locked (skip to 8:15 - Indigo Ink truck with topper):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RzyY...ailpage#t=495s

The second is me running the EXACT SAME BOWL about 2 minutes later with A-TRAC only, no locker. The sound you hear is A-TRAC kicking in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1Ii...layer_embedded


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
Alright I'm outta this thread before it implodes
Good call. But Hey...I like a good ol' shitstorm
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:40 PM   #37
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This debate needs to get AWAY FROM LOCKERS VS A-TRAC ANYWAY. It's a shitty comparison.

Lockers are one approach to a problem. A-TRAC is a different approach to the same problem. They are BOTH very effective but need to be thought of in different terms.

My recommendation: Lockers are lockers. A-TRAC is the *best* traction control system currently on the market. BOTH should be had if possible.

I can think of situations where I would want one and not the other. I actually turned it off several times, most notably for a descent of a muddy, very steep hill that we essentially slid down one after the other.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxpatriot View Post
A-TRAC is great for when you can be on the gas (mud, sand, hills, loose rock. etc.), but it does nothing at crawl speeds (on the rocks).

Conversion is not practical - I thought it through as well. For the money, you can put air lockers in and be better off.
So I guess that when the rear locker is engaged, the 3MPH maximum speed for A-TRAC to be active is useless then?

Try the thing before bashing it.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:53 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supralight View Post
So I guess that when the rear locker is engaged, the 3MPH maximum speed for A-TRAC to be active is useless then?

Try the thing before bashing it.
There is no MPH limit to ATRAC or the locker. Toyota suggests that you go no faster than 5mph with the rear end locked but that is only to cover their ass from crappy drivers.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:57 PM   #40
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In an attempt to get back to the OP's question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
Don't have the knowledge and wouldn't waste my time looking it all up. We did have a round table discussion about it this past weekend at a meet and we all came up with the same conclusion. Total waste of time and money.
Just want to x2 this....we did all come to the same conclusion that if your truck doesn't already have A-TRAC, converting makes no sense. It's going to be expensive, time consuming, and will NOT offer enough advantages over lockers (such as steering control) to make it worth that extra price. Especially considering lockers are better in many ways and much less expensive.

Lockers make far more sense if you're already working with an open diff or LSD truck.

Converting for A-TRAC is a lot like converting to 4x4...it just plain makes more sense to trade your current vehicle in for one with the capability you're looking for.
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