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front differential side bearing replacement.. done!

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:06 AM   #41
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Definitly think the CV should be replaced. I did not, and after 1000 miles do believe it has worn my new bearing slightly.

OP congrats on it coming out with the slide hammer, I know that it's no easy task. I take it you got your CV from Rock Auto? Did it have remanufactured bearing surfaces?

Thanks
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:35 AM   #42
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but we're taking about a tiny margin of error right? even the worn CV axle shows relative minute wear pattern? It's not like chucks of the surface was missing..

So are we saying this minute wear is extremely hard to achieve when the bearing and CV are both in good standing? It feels to be it would be very easy to acquire that minute wear again with new hardware..
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:00 AM   #43
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ywen, that's the million dollar question. But if the bearing is causing a vibe, replacing it then made the vibe go away, and you looked that the removed problematic bearing and didn't see/feel anything wrong with it, then you're in the same boat. Why replace the bearing if it looks/feel okay? Maybe it was your CV Axle all along, and not the bearing, causing the vibe? The real decision maker would be: Do you want to replace one or the other discovering later than either the opposite part or both were causing the vibe...only to have to tear things apart a second time? This last question would be why I would change both if it were me (and it's a lesson learned for me too).
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:06 PM   #44
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So both ywen's and moose's comment lead me to two things. When one replaces a wheel beaing (that may show no signs of wear with no load) with a new one you get both races and the rollers/balls. I think there is more to this then I had though. Nearly non-detectable wear might ne to much.

From experience with GM vehicles there cv shafts have a crome vanadium hardened type finish on the surface in question. Even the slightest sign of wear is to much. The problem is that they at cheap for those vehicles.

At this point I would say that they should only be replaced as a set. So if anyone has any expreience with replacements I'm interested. The insde part of the halfshaft is over $300 from Toyota I believe.

I see we've moved threads.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KColoTaco View Post
So both ywen's and moose's comment lead me to two things. When one replaces a wheel beaing (that may show no signs of wear with no load) with a new one you get both races and the rollers/balls. I think there is more to this then I had though. Nearly non-detectable wear might ne to much.

From experience with GM vehicles there cv shafts have a crome vanadium hardened type finish on the surface in question. Even the slightest sign of wear is to much. The problem is that they at cheap for those vehicles.

At this point I would say that they should only be replaced as a set. So if anyone has any expreience with replacements I'm interested. The insde part of the halfshaft is over $300 from Toyota I believe.

I see we've moved threads.
I wasn't talking wheel bearings, strictly the needle roller bearing issue.

And, yes, it's too bad we've got two threads going where we're crossing back and forth. I would have liked to see all this joined into Krookz's thread.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Moose View Post
I wasn't talking wheel bearings, strictly the needle roller bearing issue.

And, yes, it's too bad we've got two threads going where we're crossing back and forth. I would have liked to see all this joined into Krookz's thread.

Dang, I just got caught up on the other thread... I somehow must have accidentally un-subscribed, because a lot has gone on since I posted in it back in Dec. At that point we all had serious doubts that it was possible to swap the bearing without cracking open the diff case. Didn't realize that several people now have replaced the bearings (albeit with mixed success).

Huh.

Metallikatz, sorry I doubted your claim in my prior post.

If anyone else is planning on doing this bearing replacement procedure, a video of the key parts of the procedure would be extremely helpful, not only to see how to do it, but also to more fully understand the nature of the problem. I still am trying to wrap my head around exactly what happens inside the diff bearing when the CV angle is increased due to a lift. Does the output shaft just apply a torsional load on the bearing due to the axle angle relative to the output shaft?
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:16 PM   #47
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I've uploaded a WAV file of the rumble noise in my truck

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...ff-now-17.html
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Old 01-28-2011, 09:55 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Moose View Post
I wasn't talking wheel bearings, strictly the needle roller bearing issue.

And, yes, it's too bad we've got two threads going where we're crossing back and forth. I would have liked to see all this joined into Krookz's thread.

Sorry if I made that unclear, I was just using a wheel beaing as an example. Bother races are always replaced. I work with railroad bearing defect detection and same goes for them, if cup is defective cone is replaced as well.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KColoTaco View Post
Sorry if I made that unclear, I was just using a wheel beaing as an example. Bother races are always replaced. I work with railroad bearing defect detection and same goes for them, if cup is defective cone is replaced as well.
I work for a large crane company and we have some wheels where the inner race is the shaft. The needle bearing we are talking about is only an outer race and rollers the inner race is the shaft that goes inside. we had an issue with bearing failure and the final analysis was that the inner race (our shaft) was the wrong hardness for the rollers and was failing the bearings. we made our shafts harder (larger brinell number) and the failure rate disappeared. so i guess i am wondering if the shaft might be causing this bearing to fail since we have some proof that it is failing before a lift is even installed. Just my thoughts on this troubling issue.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:27 AM   #50
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damn I've just been going by the Tundra TSB where they recommended only to replace the shaft when it exhibits unusual wear pattern, so I was under the assumption that only a subset of the cases requires replacing both shaft and bearing.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captspaulding1000 View Post
I work for a large crane company and we have some wheels where the inner race is the shaft. The needle bearing we are talking about is only an outer race and rollers the inner race is the shaft that goes inside. we had an issue with bearing failure and the final analysis was that the inner race (our shaft) was the wrong hardness for the rollers and was failing the bearings. we made our shafts harder (larger brinell number) and the failure rate disappeared. so i guess i am wondering if the shaft might be causing this bearing to fail since we have some proof that it is failing before a lift is even installed. Just my thoughts on this troubling issue.
Right on man!

By the looks of my shaft when I removed it I think this is a possiblity. Alot of guys say 1/8" to 1/4" slop is okay. I think its a must to say no beaing should have 1/4" of slop in it between races unless they where designed that way for a special purpose. I'm thinking the shaft that is to soft wears even enough not to detect the wear.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KColoTaco View Post
Right on man!

By the looks of my shaft when I removed it I think this is a possiblity. Alot of guys say 1/8" to 1/4" slop is okay. I think its a must to say no beaing should have 1/4" of slop in it between races unless they where designed that way for a special purpose. I'm thinking the shaft that is to soft wears even enough not to detect the wear.
anyone have an old shaft that they could could get tested for brinell hardness? I am going to buy the replacement bearing from toyota and have my bearing supplier source it. Once i can get the actual bearing number (not the toyota part number) i can get he spec sheet for the bearing and figure out what the shaft od (outside diameter) needs to be and what surface finish and hardness are required. I would really like to resolve this or at least figure out why its happening so i can decide if i keep my lifted truck or sell it for soemthing else. I had a lifted titan before this and after 100000 kms not even a hint of a problem. my tacoma has 10000 kms and feels like its falling apart.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:53 PM   #53
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still new

i have this noise and my 2010 only has 12k miles on it, 3 inch lift and a diff drop also. i'll be sad if the stealership doesnt cover it but they should right?

i bought mine in socal and drove it up to washington where i am stationed
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:20 PM   #54
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It is sad to read all about all this "slop/play" on that shaft. I looked at my yesterday and was able to wiggle that sucker quite a bit. I was shocked and could not believe it. I am a shade tree mechanic who those maintenance for fun on the family Yotas but I know all this play is piss poor grade with design.

Thankfully, because of this issue, I've decided not to lift my truck. Not ever by a mere 3 inches. It will stay stock until it dies or the diesel Tundra comes out and then I will trade it.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocruz View Post
i have this noise and my 2010 only has 12k miles on it, 3 inch lift and a diff drop also. i'll be sad if the stealership doesnt cover it but they should right?

i bought mine in socal and drove it up to washington where i am stationed

If I were you, I take it to the MWR DIY shop and take that lift off. The thieves will flat out tell you no go if you pull up with it. Do not take a chance.

Stay safe brother.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romafern View Post
If I were you, I take it to the MWR DIY shop and take that lift off. The thieves will flat out tell you no go if you pull up with it. Do not take a chance.

Stay safe brother.
Well the dealer sells the exact same lift kit that i currently have installed. it wouldnt make sense to sell a product, but blame the issue on the exact product the company is selling.

i guess some things just make too much sense to do
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:33 PM   #57
I think I'm getting the Fear.
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Are the driver and passenger side bearings the same? I've had enough of this noise/vibe. Going to start getting everything ready to change both bearings, seals, and shafts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallikatz3 View Post
Sorry guys. I've just been really busy with work for the past month basically. I'm still alive and the fix is still holding up.

I started to take some pictures but it just got annoying while wrestling with everything. It wasn't an easy fix, I'd rate it a 7 out of 10.

Parts required are:
Needle Roller Bearing - 90364-35010 $11.31
Oil Seal - 90311-47012 $7.56
Cardone CV Shaft - 665235 $44.79

Its very straight foreward though. Here's the basic steps I took.

1. Jack up truck and remove the wheel.
2. Take off the caliper and rotor (more room to wrestle with the CV shaft)
3. Remove the dust cap over the axle nut
4. Remove wheel nut (I had to use an impact gun, I could not even budge it with a 3ft breaker bar)
5. Separate the upper ball joint and steering tie rod to pull the spindle out far enough to get the cv off.
6. pry out the cv from the diff. (Oil will leak from diff at this point)
7. Remove cv shaft from truck and set aside
8. Pry out oil seal from diff
9. Use slide hammer to pull out bearing (pain in the ass)
10. Install new bearing (I put mine in the freezer for a while)
11. Install new oil seal
12. Wrestle new CV shaft into place
13. Bolt everything back in and torque it down.

I know these are very general steps, and they may not be correct per the FSM (which says to remove the diff anyway) But they worked for me.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MY50cal View Post
Are the driver and passenger side bearings the same? I've had enough of this noise/vibe. Going to start getting everything ready to change both bearings, seals, and shafts.

No they should not be the same. From what i remember, the passenger side bearing is actually a much bigger roller bearing, not a needle bearing. I cant imagine that being the cause. But definitely look into your driver side one!
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:13 PM   #59
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look at the exploded diagram in the FSM
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:14 PM   #60
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replacing needle bearing

After extensive searching and researching, I have ordered the parts. I replaced wheel bearings at 80,000. They were shot. Now at 83,000, I am going to do the diff/axle needle bearing replacement. Hopefully within the next few weeks. My vibe/grind is now really bad. And the play in the axle at the diff is real bad. I'll try to remember to take pics and document it. I am not planning on replacing the axle, but if it is damaged I will do with a cardone.

FYI, I wrote Toyota corporate about this issue. Here is the "canned" reply

==========
We apologize for the concerns regarding your 2005 Tacoma.

We do not show a Special Service Campaign or recall for the conditions you described, and thus do not have specific insight to provide. If you have not done so already, we recommend you contact the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership, www.toyota.com/dealers, to help assure everything is done to properly diagnose and repair your Tacoma. If there is a dealership we can contact for you, please reply to this email with your contact information and dealership of choice.

Please be aware that the information you have provided is used in combination with warranty claims and other customer contacts to track trends with our vehicles. If in the future a Special Service Campaign (SSC) or recall is issued that would cover your specific concerns and you have already made repairs to the vehicle, Toyota would review your repairs for reimbursement at that time.

We again apologize for the concerns with your vehicle and for any further inconvenience or expense you may incur.
================

Not much help!
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