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Cheap Upgrades to Gain HP and Torque

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Old 02-09-2011, 01:04 AM   #21
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Yea? He's on the road its not as big a deal depending on area.. go find a 4 wheeler with a K&N without a pre-filter (which they don't make). You'll find mud all down his intake. Dirt packed into the throttle body.
That means, not filtering, which means cylinder wear. Which means pre-mature blow-by and oil consumption. I mean, they offer no measurable gains, but do offer measurable filtration loss. I had just never thought about it before. I'm staying away from now on.


Well I didn't think about it, and I saw my neighbors throttle body. I do not have a problem with the oiled foam like you find on many motorcycles and lawnmowers, and a k&n with a good pre-filter would probably be good enough for me but at that point... why?
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:15 PM   #22
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In defense of CAIs

I don't really see how you can say that an after market air filter doesn't add power. Decreasing intake restriction is literally how your throttle works. Improving that flow rate is basically raising the ceiling on your maximum flow and power potential. Not to mention its the first modification most tuners do to their motor. I don't think they're all wrong.

As far as dirt being in someone's intake tube, I would suspect poor installation/seals before I blame the filter element. K&N is an industry leader for a reason. That being said, you obviously don't want to dunk a cone filter in mud. That's why they make SI kits.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kernwhole View Post
I don't really see how you can say that an after market air filter doesn't add power. Decreasing intake restriction is literally how your throttle works. Improving that flow rate is basically raising the ceiling on your maximum flow and power potential. Not to mention its the first modification most tuners do to their motor. I don't think they're all wrong.

As far as dirt being in someone's intake tube, I would suspect poor installation/seals before I blame the filter element. K&N is an industry leader for a reason. That being said, you obviously don't want to dunk a cone filter in mud. That's why they make SI kits.
Except the ECU only uses a specific air/fuel ratio...So you can add as much air as you want...You won't see amazing power gains. A couple of HP maybe...but that's about it.

Coupled with several other mods- like a programmable ECU piggy back, blower, exhaust, and internals...You'll see more gains but you'd see alot of that without the intake or filter too.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kernwhole View Post
I don't really see how you can say that an after market air filter doesn't add power. Decreasing intake restriction is literally how your throttle works. Improving that flow rate is basically raising the ceiling on your maximum flow and power potential. Not to mention its the first modification most tuners do to their motor. I don't think they're all wrong.

As far as dirt being in someone's intake tube, I would suspect poor installation/seals before I blame the filter element. K&N is an industry leader for a reason. That being said, you obviously don't want to dunk a cone filter in mud. That's why they make SI kits.
I added both a AFE CAI Stage 2 SI and a Flowmaster cat-back exhaust to my vehicle, I know power was added because i can sure as hell feel a difference.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kernwhole View Post
I don't really see how you can say that an after market air filter doesn't add power. Decreasing intake restriction is literally how your throttle works. Improving that flow rate is basically raising the ceiling on your maximum flow and power potential. Not to mention its the first modification most tuners do to their motor. I don't think they're all wrong.

As far as dirt being in someone's intake tube, I would suspect poor installation/seals before I blame the filter element. K&N is an industry leader for a reason. That being said, you obviously don't want to dunk a cone filter in mud. That's why they make SI kits.
There isn't much restriction in the intake. The big restriction is at the head. Yeah you make make it a bit easier with a filter but the head will only flow so much. If you port the head or add higher lift cams then you see the intake come into play.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
There isn't much restriction in the intake. The big restriction is at the head. Yeah you make make it a bit easier with a filter but the head will only flow so much. If you port the head or add higher lift cams then you see the intake come into play.
A friend of mine that builds race motors and drag races told me that the first restriction is the heads. If you don't touch your heads you'll never suck anymore air into your motor that with a stock airbox. The only benefit is colder air. I would only put a cold air intake on a high revving sports car. On a truck it's a waste of money. My truck rarely revs over2500 rpm so there is no point. The only reason to put an exhaust on is to change the sound.

As far as mud in the throttle body WTF are you doing, hello common sense.

IMO if you want to go fast, get a Mustang, or a bike.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:56 PM   #27
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Im going to throw this into the mix just for fun and want to see what happens:

If you want more power why not just run 91 octane.....

let the discussion begin
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:09 AM   #28
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I have read claims higher octane gas makes higher HP, I don't believe it. You only use higher octane if you have higher compression or boost. Your timing must be set for higher octane.
That's how it was explained to me, my truck is to much of a pig to waste money on high octane, get a Mustang if you want to go fast.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kernwhole View Post
I don't really see how you can say that an after market air filter doesn't add power. Decreasing intake restriction is literally how your throttle works....
Because it depends on how restrictive the intake was in the first place... apparently Tacoma's intakes aren't very restrictive so the gains just aren't there.

With my '07 Rabbit, though, the stock intake is VERY restrictive. A CAI would net an easy 7HP/8-10 LbFt trq. across the power band with a CAI on a 2.5L Rabbit.
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:03 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
I added both a AFE CAI Stage 2 SI and a Flowmaster cat-back exhaust to my vehicle, I know power was added because i can sure as hell feel a difference.
For the money put out, I doubt you shaved 0.20 seconds off your quarter mile. With that rear end on those leaf springs bouncing around, you could never really hook up.
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
I have read claims higher octane gas makes higher HP, I don't believe it. You only use higher octane if you have higher compression or boost. Your timing must be set for higher octane.
That's how it was explained to me, my truck is to much of a pig to waste money on high octane, get a Mustang if you want to go fast.
Ya i kind of just through that in for the sake or arguement lol
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:34 AM   #32
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OP, I have the AFE Stage 2si and am going to put on the TRD catback exhaust. Does it help power? Probably not significantly. Does it put a big smile on my face with the sound it makes? Yes it does. Good enough for me!

If your wanting sound, do the intake and exhaust. If you want power, either put a blower on it or spend the doe to buy something meant to go fast. It sucks, but it's just the nature of the beast.
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:26 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
For the money put out, I doubt you shaved 0.20 seconds off your quarter mile. With that rear end on those leaf springs bouncing around, you could never really hook up.
I have an Xr, My rear end is Rock Solid
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:10 PM   #34
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Oh Octane...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08pretaco View Post
Im going to throw this into the mix just for fun and want to see what happens:

If you want more power why not just run 91 octane.....

let the discussion begin
Octane is not a higher energy additive in gas like most people think. It is a hydrocarbon molecule with a higher ignition temperature than the others present in gasoline such as heptane, methane, etc. (methane might not be there but its on of the few "thanes" I can think of at the moment.) Anyway, higher octane fuels have higher auto ignition temps than normal unleaded allowing you to run higher levels of compression or boost before you get auto ignition (pinging). Auto ignition being when the fuel air mixture detonates before the spark plug fires. Hope this clears up the premium v.s. regular myth.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kernwhole View Post
Octane is not a higher energy additive in gas like most people think. It is a hydrocarbon molecule with a higher ignition temperature than the others present in gasoline such as heptane, methane, etc. (methane might not be there but its on of the few "thanes" I can think of at the moment.) Anyway, higher octane fuels have higher auto ignition temps than normal unleaded allowing you to run higher levels of compression or boost before you get auto ignition (pinging). Auto ignition being when the fuel air mixture detonates before the spark plug fires. Hope this clears up the premium v.s. regular myth.
Ya it was a joke, thats why I worded it the way I did but I appreciate your input!
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
Except the ECU only uses a specific air/fuel ratio...So you can add as much air as you want...You won't see amazing power gains. A couple of HP maybe...but that's about it.

Coupled with several other mods- like a programmable ECU piggy back, blower, exhaust, and internals...You'll see more gains but you'd see alot of that without the intake or filter too.
You're right, the ECU does use a specific fuel to air mixture (14.7:1 by mass usually) and that is the exact reason you have a flow sensor on your intake tube. But you're also right that a piggy back unit helps tremendously. The stock ECU only goes so far in adjusting flow and usually sides with safety, longevity, and fuel economy; not power like we would want.

A blower is really the only substantial horse power additive available for the truck but for my money, i'd rather spend $5k on a sport bike and leave my daily driver for what it is
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:32 PM   #37
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To get back on topic.
I went the normal route that most people go, and then some. This is the path I would take to more HP. You can stop, when you run out of money or you hit enough power.

CAI, Use TRD First design or AFe.

Cat back. Many available. I would use a TRD or Manaflow (2 1/2") 3" if S/C. I like URD's 3" catback.

Headers. Doug Thorley Long tubes. (If in an smog check area, I would use JBA Short tubes) Long tubes are any easy install. Short tubes are a pain. I have had both.

APR X-1. Currently hard to find. Worth every penny.

URD y pipe.

TRD or URD S/C. URD gives the best bang for the buck. You have to have an APR X1 for tuning it.

NST blower pulley (if TRD)

Your first Call should be to Gadget at URD (Underdog Racing Development). Super guy. Tell him how much money you have to burn and he will tell you how fast you can go.

http://urdusa.com/

I can't tell you how much he has helped me.

For the Record, my last dyno run was at 354 HP.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
I have read claims higher octane gas makes higher HP, I don't believe it. You only use higher octane if you have higher compression or boost. Your timing must be set for higher octane.
That's how it was explained to me, my truck is to much of a pig to waste money on high octane, get a Mustang if you want to go fast.
You would be making a poor assumption. Modern engine computers have what they call knock sensors. If you datalog your engine parameters the effect of these knock sensors will be called KR (knock retard). Basically what your ECU is doing is it is constantly hunting the proper timing for max efficiency. How it does this is over time is that it will increase timing to the point where you get spark knock (detonation) then it will dial the timing back to a safer level. It uses these knock sensors to pick up minuscule levels of spark knock to judge where it should pull timing. With 87 Octane it will hear the knock a whole lot sooner in the timing curve and retard it back. With 91 or 93 octane the motor will continually increase the timing much higher than it would with 87 octane, thus creating more power due to the engine's increased efficiency. In cars with forced induction (ie turbos, superchargers) this system is used to protect the motor more so than create more power. With our motors this is done to create more power by advancing the timing curve. Hope this helps explain how this works.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:02 PM   #39
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But since these engines are probably tuned for 87 no power difference will be made with 91. The manual used to say use 91 for increased performance but it was removed in the later years. Maybe they were tuned for 91 and they aren't know.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:20 PM   #40
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Cheap HP and Torque???

Good luck. That's like finding a hot woman who knows when to keep her mouth shut and cheap to maintain. It doesn't exist and if someone tells you it does, THEY'RE LYING!!
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