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Old 05-12-2011, 07:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaBuzz View Post
I've seen many nissans and fords rust out just as easy up here in the snow belt. Maintinence is key regardless of make, you are putting corrosive salt in prolonged contact with steel.
You have access to very high end drugs if you think that the huge buyback from Toyota was not a sign of Tacoma rust issues. I had a 13 year old Dakota that had LESS RUST, than my 6 month old Tacoma. I'm getting my second new rear bumper in 18 months as soon as I take my truck in.
And maintenance is not key. I owned the Dakota, it didn't rust. I own the Tacoma, it does.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:43 PM   #22
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Always living near the coast or on an island, I have seen surface rust with every truck I have owned, including Fords, Nissans and Toyotas. I have always put a added "touch up underneath" on my maintenance schedule, to spot paint surface rust areas so they do not get out of hand. It is normal, and if you do not do this with Toyotas you will see rust at the seams, welds, etc. I have undercoated my trucks in the past, but you will still have to spot check and paint your truck underneath at times. My current truck was ordered, and took home upon delivery on day 1, and garaged kept ever since, and it still shows surface rust. I have washed and waxed it regularly.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:43 AM   #23
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I have lived in this same area all my life. Its totally untrue that all vehicles rust out at the same rate.
I had a 99 f150, only treated once with undercoating. Got rid of it after 10 years and 170000kms. It never had as much rust as my 09 Tacoma, with 20,000kms treated with rustproofing.
I can see a huge difference
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear View Post
...
Too bad they don't make steel truck frames coated with a triple-dip unbreakable metal-bonded plastic outer layer. Truck life would sure be easier.
Why not just a galvanized dip like body panels?
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:28 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh1 View Post
Why not just a galvanized dip like body panels?
It would drastically increase the cost to manufacture the frames, and the consumers would have to pay for it.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFalk View Post
It would drastically increase the cost to manufacture the frames, and the consumers would have to pay for it.
Drastically? How much to you is drastic?

Would you pay $1000 more for a truck knowing the frame was galvanized?

How about if the cost is closer to $100? I can't imagine how electrogalvanizing... tightly integrated with frame manufacture as Toyota would insist... could possibly add much more than $100 to cost of the frame.

Hot-dip galvanized would offer far better protection, but that would cost more as there'd have to be secondary operations for machining of attach points since it's so thick. But I think electrogalvanizing, with a paint coat on top, would offer at least as good protection as body panels that get the same (not all do).
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:11 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhk View Post
...Unfortunately, vehicles are made the way they are because they are *intended* to last a certain amount of time before they turn to junk (planned obsolescence)...
I would only quibble with assertion that it's *intended* to last a certain amount of time. I'd say *allowed* to last a certain time.

Why? because the rest of the vehicle deteriorates at a certain rate too... and preventing THAT is far to costly. Electrical components, upholstery, accessories, etc., etc. Way to expensive to design robust enough to last 'forever'.

By far the largest number of new-vehicle buyers trade in far to soon to experience those things failing. But even those who keep vehicles until those things start to fail (like me!) far outnumber the unbelieveably rare few who really do manage to "run her 'til the wheels fall off".

Point is: that die-hard market segment doesn't get the attention of Toyota, they get the attention of RockAuto and other after-market auto parts dealers who stock parts for out-of-production vehicles.

We couldn't afford vehicles that weren't designed with 'planned obsolescence' in mind. Not just because the as-designed cost to manufacture would be too high, but because there would be no economies of scale. In my opinion, taking a much larger view, it's actually is good since it generates jobs. But that's another topic entirely.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhk View Post
It wouldn't be drastic.
In fact, it is fairly inexpensive and definitely (from the consumer's point of view) a worthwhile expense.

For all the metal on a pickup (body panels, frame members, etc.), and with the volume that a car maker would process, it wouldn't cost more than about $50-$100 per vehicle.

Unfortunately, vehicles are made the way they are because they are *intended* to last a certain amount of time before they turn to junk (planned obsolescence). Long enough that the customers don't freak out, short enough that they eventually come back for more. Its a fine balance. Now with the G1 frames, there was a definite miscalculation. They rusted through *too* fast, which is why the frame swap and buy back programs happened.
You're just making up that $50-100 number off the top of your head. I would be amazed if the cost was that low. It would take a lot of time and effort to redesign their facilities to allow for an automated hot-dip zinc tank. Not to mention additional time required for production and cost of materials.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:21 AM   #29
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i have a few chips from rocks on my hood (about the size of a BB) that have begun to turn that ugly red rust color. should i be acting on these before they spread? how? do i have to sand the entire area around and have it professionally repainted?
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFalk View Post
Y... to allow for an automated hot-dip zinc tank. Not to mention additional time required for production and cost of materials.
Totally agree hot-dip would be too expensive but facility costs aren't the reason. The reason is because hot dip is a very thick and they'd need post-dip machining to achieve dimensional tolerances for attach points at motor mounts, suspension, etc.

The preferred method would be electrogalvanizing, like they do for body panels. And even with this method, facility costs aren't trivial but when amortized over 10-20 years of production after depreciation, the contribution to unit cost is trivial. In fact, this is a very common metal finish so I wouldn't be surprised to find the frame house they use has the tanks already in house, or an outside supplier that can do it for them. They can probably even get their steel already electrogalvanized and make the frame using it because of it's uniform thickness.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh1 View Post
Totally agree hot-dip would be too expensive but facility costs aren't the reason. The reason is because hot dip is a very thick and they'd need post-dip machining to achieve dimensional tolerances for attach points at motor mounts, suspension, etc.

The preferred method would be electrogalvanizing, like they do for body panels. And even with this method, facility costs aren't trivial but when amortized over 10-20 years of production after depreciation, the contribution to unit cost is trivial. In fact, this is a very common metal finish so I wouldn't be surprised to find the frame house they use has the tanks already in house, or an outside supplier that can do it for them. They can probably even get their steel already electrogalvanized and make the frame using it because of it's uniform thickness.
If they received steel which was already galvanized, then they would have difficulty assembling the components because as soon as they begin welding, the zinc coating in that area would be vaporized, thus rendering the galvanization useless. I suppose they could do the electrogalvanization post-production. But, I still don't believe this would only result in a $50 increase in cost seen by the consumer.
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom View Post
I have discovered that the rear spring hangers on the 2nd gen are a spot to watch out for. They are joined to the frame with rivets and for whatever reason the frame seems to rust badly there. My two year old truck that has never seen salt is rusting there. It makes me crazy.
I had the same problem on my B3000. I have never driven my new Tacoma in the winter yet, but I would have to guess that like the Mazda, the snow and ice build up on the rear hangers, and just spend all winter rusting them out.

Frank
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteeringWheel View Post
I've read with interest the comments about preventing rust. Thanks for posting all the information. I'm thinking of trading for a Tacoma and wonder: While the truck is new, would you suggest undercoating as the first step in a rust-prevention program? If so, what brand would you use? Thanks for any suggestions.
Yes! It is much easier to work on a very clean truck than one that has already been exposed to road dirt and grime.

I recommend finding a competent auto restoration company in your area and ask them what they recommend for frame protection. From the research and comments around here I'd go with the POR-15, or the Eastwood products.

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:18 AM   #34
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It certainly does seem like car companies are building cars nowadays with a "set" lifespan. I really love this truck and the frame rust issues are my only real complaint about it...I would have gladly paid Toyota more $ to give my truck the best undercoating realistically possible, but that's just me. I am one of those who plan to keep my Tacoma "forever" and I will be spending a lot of time this summer under the truck cleaning off the rust and treating the rusted metal.
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:35 AM   #35
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The 'salt' used now in many areas is much worse as far as causing corrosion, than the stuff they used years ago.

'Improvements' in the stuff they throw on the roads has resulted in even worse news for our vehicles on the road.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNYTACOMA View Post
The 'salt' used now in many areas is much worse as far as causing corrosion, than the stuff they used years ago.

'Improvements' in the stuff they throw on the roads has resulted in even worse news for our vehicles on the road.
Very interesting! I'd love to read up on that... care to share your source of information?
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:30 AM   #37
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Ya you should always keep touch up paint in your truck storage. Touch up chips as soon as they happen. It never looks seamless but looks MUCH nicer than rusty chips all over the place. Plus prevents any rust from spreading under the paint etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hamNswiss on rye View Post
i have a few chips from rocks on my hood (about the size of a BB) that have begun to turn that ugly red rust color. should i be acting on these before they spread? how? do i have to sand the entire area around and have it professionally repainted?

As far as protection ya I'm not going to wait for my frame to rust to nothing before dealing with it so I can try a warranty issue. I've got some surface rust on my frame as well coming through the toyota paint, and prob next summer I'm just gonna get in there with a grinder and coat everything with some kind of rust preventing spray, Maybe even bedliner! It is very tough and designed to stop and prevent rust. Turned out nice on my rock sliders any ways. They had more than surface rust too.

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh1 View Post
Very interesting! I'd love to read up on that... care to share your source of information?
I don't have a current source, but it has been pretty well documented over the previous maybe 5 years or so.

I think it has to do in part to the ability of the more recent concoctions to melt snow / ice at lower temps than the old stuff. It may even have been a cost cutter for the municipalities, at our expense, of course, at least in damage to our own vehicles.

Seems like i remeber how the mechanics would remark about the big increase in rotted out break lines and such after the change.

At least thats what i have going on memory...
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:59 PM   #39
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Around here they use magnesium chloride prior to snow etc to prevent ice from bonding to the road.

From wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesi...s_an_anti-icer

Especially "Magnesium chloride is much less toxic to plant life surrounding highways and airports, and is less corrosive to concrete and steel (and other iron alloys) than sodium chloride."
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNYTACOMA View Post
I don't have a current source, but it has been pretty well documented over the previous maybe 5 years or so....
Documented? or urban myth passed around so much people actually start to believe it? Without sources it's hard to know which it is.

Sodium chloride is sodium chloride, it's a corrosive as ever. There are other salts (mainly calcium chloride and potassium chloride, but also magnesium as someone else noted) they could use but their cost is much higher and are still corrosive; but not MORE so!

I think some places (but not everywhere) use a kind of molasses in the salt mix that makes the salt 'stick' longer on the roads. It can also makes it 'stick' longer under your vehicle. But thing is: it's no more corrosive than sodium chloride can make it. The way to reduce the contact time, and therefore the severity of corrosive effect, is the same as it ever was: give the undercarriage a really good wash after each and every snow event.
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