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Throwout bearing again!!

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Old 12-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
IMHO the short throw shifter seems to not be related to the the Release Bearing or amount of travel it has along the Pilot Shaft, or affect the Pilot Shaft in any way, but you know what I'm going to say... if it were me, I'd pull the urd shifter. My 05 was heavily modified and that got me no where, but I was one of the first handful of owners nationwide to have the issue.

Now if there are guys adjusting the clutch engagement point (which can be easily done) to shorten the clutch throw, or add washers to take out the small amount of clutch pedal free play common with our trucks, that can and will effect the RB in many subtle ways. It is still speculation until they drop that tranny but you can see what they offer.
Yeah I hear you... I will try one dealer and see what they say...

Thanks.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:34 PM   #22
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Wow! Good info to know. I just had the T/O bearing done (with new p/p and disk) under warranty. Mileage was 16407. This is the only time it's ever happened to me. Cost them ~$2000.00 and me 3 days. If its as common as I think it is there should be a TSB on this.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:06 AM   #23
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Pictures

Here is the Release bearing (aka Throw Out Bearing) and the crack is clearly visible.



Here is the Pilot Shaft that is aluminum and press-fit into the Bell Housing. The yellow residue is Toyota spray on Lithium White Grease and was a bad idea as my technician could have contaminated the clutch disk and or flywheel.



Here is the Release Bearing positioned on the Pilot Shaft:



Here are 2 views through the cover plate. When the clutch pedal is depressed, the Release Bearing will move forward less than an inch, and return to the at rest position when the clutch pedal is released. The Release Bearing is in constant contact with the Pressure Plate fingers and thus the Release Bearing is spinning at all times. We have speculated that the loose fit (from the crack) of this steel on aluminum design, combined with the forces of the Pressure Plate fingers and the pivot of the clutch fork (not shown) causes the Release Bearing to grind and wear various areas of the Pilot Shaft. Once diagnosed, the technicians felt confident that a new Release Bearing would solve the issue. Since it makes good sense to replace the pressure plate and clutch disk and perform a runout test on the flywheel when replacing a Release Bearing, I ended up paying for all of that too. But once detrimental damage occurs to the Pilot Shaft, a new Release Bearing no longer corrects the chirping noise and it returns quickly, as in my case. The only option is to replace the Bell Housing or drop a brand new transmission in the truck. I went the Bell Housing route due to costs but the tranny was never the same afterwards. I only paid for the parts since I already paid the labor once and the Pilot Shaft wasn't properly inspected.




When viewing the operation of the Release Bearing with the engine running and the cover removed, the technician should be able to demonstrate the wobble using a flashlight. Applying a small amount of pressure to the slave cylinder shaft which moves the Fork, should stablize the Release Bearing enough to stop the chirp. That is the fastest way to diagnose this issue. The next step is to drop the tranny and while it is on the bench, a detailed inspection of the Pilot Shaft is required to confirm the diameter is within tolerance otherwise the repair may not last very long.

IMO, acting very quickly to the chirping sound may avert detrimental damage to the Pilot Shaft and keep your repair reasonable (if denied warranty) by limiting the repair to the replacment of the Pressure Plate, Release bearing and Clutch Disk components. Note that the 4 cyl 5-speed 05+ Tacoma manual transmission (R155 and R155F) has a superior design because the Pilot Shaft is a replaceable bolt-on component to the Bell Housing. The FJ Cruiser 6-speed manual trasnmission (RA61 and RA61F) is of similar design to the 05+ Tacoma 6-speed manual transmission (RA60 and RA60F.)

Lastly, I specifically insisted that I keep all of the old components (evidence) before the work started and I would recommend that any of you working on similar issues insist that you receive the old components.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
Hof similar design to the 05+ Tacoma 6-speed manual transmission (RA60 and RA60F.)

Lastly, I specifically insisted that I keep all of the old components (evidence) before the work started and I would recommend that any of you working on similar issues insist that you receive the old components.
Sound came back. Looking around and considering my Mods, dont look like I will be covered under warranty for this wearable item.

Ok, Release bearing is about $30. I want an upgraded clutch anyways. How much do you think it will cost and benifit me if I upgraded clutch and flywheel, replaced T/O bearing all at same time?

Note: will swap flywheel for new bell housing if needed depending on results.

Reason I ask is, not sure what's entailed in a clutch & flywheel install. Would it be more or less the same as what the dealer is charging for inspection and rebuild?

My head is spiinning. I am at the point of regretting getting the manual trans. 1 Year later, and I need a possible new trans. And no matter how much I argue with stealership I still got to pay them just to inspect the sound hoping it's produced at time of inspection. Then convince them that intake headers and full exhaust never tempted me to actually push the truck a little harder than normal. Yeah whatever...

So any guidance on a rebuild idea would help. I am putting my 2000 I had budgeted for suspension in Feb on hold so I can get this done, and get it done right.

Also waiting on some info from Gadget and the folks from URD in regards to their Clutch and Flywheel set up... http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1260518905

Oh, and how much did you say a new pilot shaft/bell housing was? Just in case...

Thanks for reading my rambles,

Later...
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:19 AM   #25
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Toyota comes through in a big way.....(UPDATE)

Toyota is replacing my 6-speed transmission tomorrow due to the problem related to the release bearing and pilot shaft shaft (RB replaced 4 times, still squeaks).

Thank you to SnoBoarder for his informative posts and suggestions, it helped tremendously. I had printed copies of your posts (just the text copied to MS Word, no names, sites, links, etc) in my truck, stapled to the service contract and also on the desk of the Service Director and Owner of the dealership.

Dropped the truck off this morning, they called by 3:00 PM telling me the trans. was being replaced, it would be done tomorrow by 6:00 PM.

Can't wait to have a trouble-free truck again!
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Old 12-17-2008, 03:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Bauer View Post
Toyota is replacing my 6-speed transmission tomorrow due to the problem related to the release bearing and pilot shaft shaft (RB replaced 4 times, still squeaks).

Thank you to SnoBoarder for his informative posts and suggestions, it helped tremendously. I had printed copies of your posts (just the text copied to MS Word, no names, sites, links, etc) in my truck, stapled to the service contract and also on the desk of the Service Director and Owner of the dealership.

Dropped the truck off this morning, they called by 3:00 PM telling me the trans. was being replaced, it would be done tomorrow by 6:00 PM.

Can't wait to have a trouble-free truck again!
Good deal!
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:00 AM   #27
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That's good news P! In your case, they failed to diagnose the Pilot Shaft so your Release Bearing fix was only temporary but taking it back 4 times for the same repair worked in your favor and helped you get that new tranny.

Did you pay for any of the repairs along the way?

The key here is you received warranty service at 49,000+ miles. Your receipts emailed to roxspin72 may help him out.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxspin72 View Post
So any guidance on a rebuild idea would help.
There's no reason to speculate that you need anything more than the labor and a Release Bearing at this time. That repair has worked for others and the Release Bearing is covered under the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty (wearable item, yes) as I was told that by Toyota Corporate, so that may apply to you. You have a 2008 that is 1 year old and you bought the Toyota brand for a reason, quality and reliability, so experiencing a costly repair at this stage of your ownership is of course, a big dissapointment and you can express that to the manager.

If it were me, I would pay the diagnosis fee to get the process started immediately and if P. helps you out with his warranty receipts, take them along with you and discuss it with the dealer. I think you'll have a good case for warranty so it is worth trying, it just may take some very humble and calm discussions on your part. The law states they have to prove your modifications and non OEM components caused the failure so all you can do is redirect it back at them (if it becomes a factor in their position) that exhaust pipes and headers aren't even remotely related so that can't be an issue. If you can get the initial repair under warranty and find yourself back in the shop, you should have a good case for a new tranny like P. If I have to go through it again with my 07, I won't go the rebuild route. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Best online parts pricing I found anywhere (35% off):
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=213747&chapter= APM802&appSectionid=11&groupid=10010&make=34&model =Tacoma&year=2007&catalogid=1

Email: parts@toyotaworld.com
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:24 AM   #29
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Resurrected this reply from AskToyota.com:

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We apologize for your dissatisfaction with our previous reply. In addition, we apologize for the concern you are experiencing with your 2005 Tacoma, and we regret to hear of your dissatisfaction in this matter.

The warranty coverage for the throw-out bearing is three years / 36,000 miles, whichever comes first from the vehicle’s date of first use. Once the vehicle is outside of these warranty guidelines the cost of repairs becomes the owner’s responsibility.


However, in the interest of customer satisfaction, we may review individual requests even when the factory warranty has expired. A review of this sort is handled by our corporate contact, the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership. The Customer Relations Manager will take into consideration a number of factors such as:
  • Vehicle age and mileage in comparison to the manufacturer’s original warranty
  • Nature of repair
  • Inspection of the affected parts
  • Maintenance and repair history
If this type of assistance can be offered, the Customer Relations Manager would coordinate it with Toyota, following Toyota’s guidelines and procedures.


Please contact the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership to review your request further. We feel confident that he or she will address your concerns in a courteous and professional manner.

We also invite you to review our My Toyota Warranty Has Expired FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) regarding the warranty parameters for your vehicle.

Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters under file #*************. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.
Toyota Customer Experience
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Bauer View Post
Toyota is replacing my 6-speed transmission tomorrow due to the problem related to the release bearing and pilot shaft shaft (RB replaced 4 times, still squeaks).

Thank you to SnoBoarder for his informative posts and suggestions, it helped tremendously. I had printed copies of your posts (just the text copied to MS Word, no names, sites, links, etc) in my truck, stapled to the service contract and also on the desk of the Service Director and Owner of the dealership.

Dropped the truck off this morning, they called by 3:00 PM telling me the trans. was being replaced, it would be done tomorrow by 6:00 PM.

Can't wait to have a trouble-free truck again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
That's good news P! In your case, they failed to diagnose the Pilot Shaft so your Release Bearing fix was only temporary but taking it back 4 times for the same repair worked in your favor and helped you get that new tranny.

Did you pay for any of the repairs along the way?

The key here is you received warranty service at 49,000+ miles. Your receipts emailed to roxspin72 may help him out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
There's no reason to speculate that you need anything more than the labor and a Release Bearing at this time. That repair has worked for others and the Release Bearing is covered under the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty (wearable item, yes) as I was told that by Toyota Corporate, so that may apply to you. You have a 2008 that is 1 year old and you bought the Toyota brand for a reason, quality and reliability, so experiencing a costly repair at this stage of your ownership is of course, a big dissapointment and you can express that to the manager.

If it were me, I would pay the diagnosis fee to get the process started immediately and if P. helps you out with his warranty receipts, take them along with you and discuss it with the dealer. I think you'll have a good case for warranty so it is worth trying, it just may take some very humble and calm discussions on your part. The law states they have to prove your modifications and non OEM components caused the failure so all you can do is redirect it back at them (if it becomes a factor in their position) that exhaust pipes and headers aren't even remotely related so that can't be an issue. If you can get the initial repair under warranty and find yourself back in the shop, you should have a good case for a new tranny like P. If I have to go through it again with my 07, I won't go the rebuild route. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Best online parts pricing I found anywhere (35% off):
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=213747&chapter= APM802&appSectionid=11&groupid=10010&make=34&model =Tacoma&year=2007&catalogid=1

Email: parts@toyotaworld.com
I just want to thak you all for some good advice & info. I am going to print these out like P did and use it as back up ammo. Also will have a copy of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, just in case we hit that obstacle. Dont get me wrong I want a new Clutch. And by looking at the Light weight Flywheel by paradise racing on the URD site, I believe it a good mod. Freeing up HP from the crank will allow more to push my bigger heavier wheel/tire set up. But I was planning that far down the line.

I hope they can fix this, and or replace my Trans. I will keep you all posted. I was told to bring my truck in for the leaf pack TSB. Im going to see if just by listening if they can give me an idea of what the problem is, and then schedule an inspection from there.

By the way, if it falls under warranty, do they waive the inspection fee and all. Just wondering.

But most of all thanks, I feel like there might be light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh and P. if it wont be any trouble, you can PM me with any info you can provide.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:16 AM   #31
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I'd be glad to email him all my work orders. I'm actually at 52,000 miles now, and they didn't question me once about mileage.

Roxspin72, let me know how I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
That's good news P! In your case, they failed to diagnose the Pilot Shaft so your Release Bearing fix was only temporary but taking it back 4 times for the same repair worked in your favor and helped you get that new tranny.

Did you pay for any of the repairs along the way?

The key here is you received warranty service at 49,000+ miles. Your receipts emailed to roxspin72 may help him out.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:24 AM   #32
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Modifications.

as a note, my truck has mods and I was very open and honest with the dealership about them.

Coilovers, UCAs, diff drop, driveline spacer, AAL + 1" block, rear shocks, 285 tires, TRD S/C, exhaust, TRD intake, URD shortshifter.

I told them all were installed by me because I don't think anybody would be as meticulous about that truck as I would. I mentioned that I do all the service, including all synthetic fluids, spark plugs, air filter cleaning, etc, etc. I basically told them I loved that truck and I was not happy that the only thing wrong (squeaky TOB) could not be fixed and it was killing me (OCD!).

I told the Service Director and Dealership Owner that my truck was the nicest truck on the lot, and they should both feel free to take it out for a drive.

I called this morning to make sure they didn't throw my URD SS away, I would re-install it later. They told me they swapped it over for me.

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Old 12-17-2008, 10:31 PM   #33
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FIXED!

Brand new 6-speed installed in 1 day by dealership. Regional Director for Toyota (CTS) approved everything and they are sending my original transmission back to Toyota for inspection and analysis (possible TSB for 6-speed trans?).

I am very happy with the treatment and respect given by my particular dealership, Capitol Toyota in San Jose, CA. They never gave me a hard time, never tried to push fault on me for the failed parts, etc. Of course they asked the standard questions, which I found amusing:

1. Do you drive your Tacoma off road? <yes, I drive my Tacoma TRD Off-Road pickup truck off road, about few times a year, dirt roads, camping, etc.>

2. Do you use your Tacoma to tow? <yes, I use my Tacoma with factory tow package to tow, about once a month, 3500 lbs total>

3. Do you pressure wash the truck, specifically underneath, such as suspension, drivetrain, driveline, diff, transmission, wheels? <no>

4. Do you use steam/hot water-type pressure washer on the truck, specifically underneath, such as suspension, drivetrain, driveline, diff, transmission, wheels? <no>

5. Do you know how to operate a manual transmission, specifically the 6-speed transmission on the Tacoma? <yes>

I'm sure they felt asking these was tiresome, but they had to go through the procedures based on Toyota of America's guidlelines.

The truck runs so much different now. I am convinced the other transmission was more damaged than initially suspected. There is absolutely no vibration when idling, or during 1st gear takeoff, and it's very smooth, almost uncomfortably smooth. The other transmission felt unbalanced, rough and notchy compared to this. In my opinion, the constant R/R of the other trans, with the bad release bearings, etc caused the input shaft and associated parts to wear prematurely. I hope this helps anybody having issues with their 6-speed trans. Please email me if you have questions.

THANKS TO SNOBOARDER FOR HIS GUIDANCE, INFO AND SUPPORT, I GIVE ALOT OF CREDIT TO YOU BASED ON YOUR INFORMATION. Toyota had copies of your info. and they never once asked for clarification, they knew you hit the nail on the head!
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:48 AM   #34
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You're welcome and I'm glad it has helped you! Toyota appears to have accepted that there is a longevity problem with the RA60/RA60F design and/or components.

I'm anxious to hear how roxspin72 makes out.
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoBoarder View Post
You're welcome and I'm glad it has helped you! Toyota appears to have accepted that there is a longevity problem with the RA60/RA60F design and/or components.

I'm anxious to hear how roxspin72 makes out.

Got an appointment the sat after christmas. The service advisor seemed to be open minded. Ensured me they will inspect everything to ensure where the problem stems from. Full inspection, plus rear spring inspect for possible Leaf TSB upgrade will be done for free under warranty.

Wish me luck.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:51 AM   #36
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roxspin...

you should have an email with some info.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by P. Bauer View Post
you should have an email with some info.
Yup.

Thank a bunch. I will have that and copies of post from TW, TN, CT, & TTORA. This will actually show a trend if the Mechanic decides to deny fault.

I was told that they just look to see if any abusive driving took place, ie excessive droping the clutch and all.

I'll admit, I had some good take offs here and there, but never one that would hop the wheels or anythiing. So I should be good.
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:47 PM   #38
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Interesting thread. I had a 1992 4runner V6, 4x4 with a 5 speed manuel that made the exact same sounds. Everyone told me they suspected a throw out bearing issue. I didnt have it long enough to care and it always drove and shifted fine. Not sure if that transmission evolved into the 6 speed tacoma tranny somehow and shared its problems?
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxspin72 View Post
Got an appointment the sat after christmas. The service advisor seemed to be open minded. Ensured me they will inspect everything to ensure where the problem stems from. Full inspection, plus rear spring inspect for possible Leaf TSB upgrade will be done for free under warranty.

Wish me luck.
How did you make out?
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
How did you make out?
My bad,

First time around the Dealer screwed up and confused my tranny noise complaint with my rear leaf complaint. So long story short, today got rear leaf TSB installed, but dealer could not reproduce sound in the trans. Not sure what to do. Really leaning on ordering a replacement clutch & flywheel from URD, which comes with new T/O bearing. Cheapest install quoted so far is $450.00 from AAMCO. Fix the issue and add performance while it's opened up

Good news is havent heard the sound in over a week.
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