2011 2.7L 4x4 Clutch Slipping.. Help?

One of the few things that held me away from the 4 cyl, I didn't want to get Luky

 

Hey this is Screamingeagle, wanted to let everyone know this.
I have posted information about my 2010 Tacoma 4 cylinder 5 speed, 4X4 truck. Slipping clutch issues
I have reported issues to Toyota starting at 5k miles. First it was the clutch/throw out bearing noise.
Later it was the slipping clutch. Then it's the BS from dealerships, not able to dupilicate the problem or it is normal. Come on it's BS!
Finnally the clutch assy was replaced with the TSB that everyone is talking about. The first day driving, the clutch was weird. Released right off the floor. Then after 100 miles the clutch releases at the end of the pedal.
I made a 2K trip. This trip was the first time the truck was put into 4x4 low with the new clutch assy. Pulling a small trailer with a snowsled weighing 500 pounds. all total 1000 pounds. Sitting in 4 to 6 inches of snow I released the clutch and thought the tires, which are stock were spinning in the snow. No it was the new clutch that was slipping and started to burn up, smoking up a storm. I had to release the trailer, drive the truck up the road and pull the trailer with the snow sled.
Short story, the replacement clutch was weaker than the original.
The truck has 23400 miles. Sits in my driveway dead for three months now.
Toyota has fed me with all the BS I will take. There is so much to this story.
Toyota has refused to replace this clutch under warranty again. Because I am standing my ground I have filed aribitration with Toyota.
I did not quilify for the TX. lemon law seeing I went out of state to buy the truck.
This week, 7/12/2012 I have an aribitration date with Toyota through NCDS.

Anything relating to your slipping clutch issue would be supporting for me for my hearing. I gave it my all to have this truck repaired, I gave it my all to trade up to a 6 cylinder 6 speed Tacoma, or Tundra but Toyota is being difficult here in Houston.

If you are driving this model truck, 4 cylinder, 5 speed manual, 4x4 I am going to recommend that you test your truck in 4x4 regularlly.
For a normal driver in 2 wheel drive you will probably never feel or deal with a slipping clutch.
There are not many Tacoma's with this setup and wonder just how many of you test your truck in the 4x4 mode.
It is my opinion that the clutch assy. new one or old setup doesn't have the pressure plate force to support a 4x4.
The clutch manufacture won't even comment to me about this clutch they supply Toyota.
Just one other thing I want to point out about Toyota.
How many of you have called customer service at Toyota?
You get nowhere, so you ask for a super,nothing, then you ask for a manager, and on up.
Have you ever notice this, everyone you speak with is asking you to tell them what's up and they are only typing!
I think everyone from the first customer service rep. to the GM is just the basic customer service rep like the first person you call.
Toyota says they want to put us first. This is BS.............
Wish me good luck and send me anything that will support me. This just might help you out down the road. Hope no one here goes through what I have been dealing with.
Screamingeagle,
wind in the face!

 

Yesterday I was driving on the highway in cruise going 110km/h in 5th, then I started up a hill got almost to the top then I lost all power from the engine, not sure if it was still in gear at this point, my initial response was press the clutch and get it in 4th then it drove fine in all gears the rest of the trip. I figured then that the cruise might of kicked out under a certain rpm until I saw this thread and it got me wondering.

 

I have tested my truck in 4x4 low with the replacement clutch under tsb066-11 and it holds great. I can get tire to slip as well and dig in on trails. I had the issue described above last year in deep snow where I was slipping. I have confidence now with the stronger pressure plate installed. It is rated for the older first gen v6 with 190hp. Check your parts and good luck.

 

To 04 Screamingeagle ,

Sorry to hear you guys are having problems. It drove me nuts until it was repaired. Even now it will, but rarely, smell lousy like it is slipping and burning. Otherwise it is fine. The dealer said I have a full new warranty on the clutch.
When I initially had trouble getting them to amitt to the problem, I went to Ask.com and described my problem. One of their mechanics told me of the inferiority of the pressure plate made in Mexico as opposed to the Japan version. He also gave me the "bulletin number" which was helpful ammunition. A new clutch, pressure plate, etc was replaced free...with a loaner car. I suggest you contact Ask.com. In addition, maybe all of us having a common problem could form a group, a list of those with problems, and get it to Toyota.
Feel free to use my situation and share it with the dealer if that would help.
Otherwise, as I said, we could create a long list of those with problems and that may help. I'll bet we could get a n impressive number. Included could be the year, miles when problem began, solution, etc. Silvert

 

I've been fighting this problem for 8 months now. Everytime I take it to the dealer it will not slip. I just got back from my fifth visit today. If you have a bulletin number I can refer to or the name of the dealer that I can have my dealer contact them for information. Any help would be appreciated.

 

SWBIMNY: Keep taking it back, that will build a record of complaints. Eventually it will wear to the point where it will slip all the time. You might need to go for a ride with the mechanic and go up a hill in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear to get it to slip. The TSB that exists, is not for the slipping problem, it is for friction material coming loose from the clutch disc. I know of no TSB for the weak pressure plate problem.
Mine would hardly slip, I took it in and they checked it somehow. After that it slipped like crazy. I think their procedure is to race the engine, , pop the clutch out and if it stalls they say its OK, if it continues to run, they must acknowledge a slipping clutch. This procedure places a lot of wear on the clutch.

 

I had the same problem. See my earlier post. He is right. It will get worse. Try accelerating in third from a slow speed almost lugging it. Likely it will slip. Take it to the dealer and insist on driving it with a mechanic along so you can reproduce it. I went to ask.com and a Toyota mechanic "on call" gave me the bulletin number.
The pressure plates made in Mexico we inferior to those made in Japan. Guess which one you have. If you have a smart phone you could try to catch the sound of slipping with it. I got a new clutch, pressure plate and all related parts for free and a new warranty and a free loaner car!. Try printing out some of our responses and take them to the dealer.
Good luck. Let me know what happens.
Silvert

 

Thank you mcgiiver and Silvert for your responses. I'll go in again with this additional information

 

wow this thread is a testimony to toyota quality


are any of you guys running larger than stock tire sizes and or have any modifications done to your truck? mine slipped on me and i smelled it pretty bad on a recent trip to vt. in 4x4 low :/

i sure hope that i don't have to go through half the bullshit you guys did.

 

I have no mods and running stock size tires. The dealer is supposed to give me a call back today if he finds out anything from Toyota. I'm not holding my breath but I'll update any information I get.

 

My 2010 did the same thing, it started slipping at around 12k took it to the dealership 4 times they still couldn't figure it out. Finally at 17k it left me stranded on the interstate after getting towed to another dealership they found the pressure plate failed and all was replaced under warranty. I now have almost 40k on the truck and this clucth still seems to be holding up. If it does it again I will be going with the centerforce dual friction clutch.

I still love my truck but I still hate most dealerships.

 

I wonder if it would help guys trying to convince dealers to fix slipping clutches if we started a "data base", or list, of vin numbers of those trucks that were repaired (new clutches installed free). Guys could take the list along give it to the service department and the dealers could look up some similar complaints that were satisfied via computer. Does anyone think making vin. numbers available would cause a problem for anyone? Is this a good idea? Would it help?
Silvert

 

Sorry to hear you might be having clutch issues. Since my arbitration the other day , as I might have mentioned, they denied the buyback of my 2010 tacoma,BUT they agreed to replace the clutch assy again under the TSB. See they were trying to blame the problem on me, like some of the others on the forum. Even if I had paid for the teardown it would have been impossible to prove the clutch failed due to manufacture. They can't set it up on the table and measure the pressure force on the clutch cover and prove what caused the weakness of the metal. So I could what the outcome would have been before it happened. They would have said sorry it's your fault and the truck would have been tore down and they would have said okay now pay up the 1400 for the new clutch. I'm 52 years old and have been in situations like this before, but I'm no idiot. I will guess in a couple weeks they will come out and tow the truck back to the dealership and install another clutch. I'll be taking off that day with a camcorder.
I'm not sure what I will do with the truck once it's repaired. I have replaced the truck with a 2012 Silverado 2500 4x4 diesel. I wanted something with balls.
I tried to make a point on this forum. That is Toyota makes one clutch that goes into the 2010 Tacoma 2.7L. It doesn't matter if it's 4x2 or 4x4.
Now if I had a 4x2 Tacoma most likely I would have never had a clutch issue. Most likely "just my opinion" under heavy load the back tires would break traction or the truck would move, or even stall. Remember the backend is light. Now put the same torque to 4x4 in 4lo which is the most torque and apply to 4 tires. The weight on the front tires is going to take some torque to spin them, even the stock tires.
In my case a couple times I was on 4 to 5 inches of wet snow, with the 1000 pound trailer, which is going to have drag on the trailer tires in the snow too. What should have been happening was the tires should have been spinning their ass off, not the clutch smoking it's life away!
When the clutch smoked twice that weaken the clutch cover, as we older folks know it as the Pressure plate.
Remember this, the stock setup on this truck was 16 inch wheels, but the stock setup on the V-6 was 17 inch. When you go up in tire size the weak point of the truck has changed. So this weak clutch they are putting into these truck can't handle the 180 pounds of torque. Rev the motor to 4K and dump the clutch, spin the tires, stall the truck, or it goes down the road. Shit what will happen is the clutch is going to smoke. They claim this truck to be able to tow 3500 pounds. I told them if I was pulling a boat weighing 2000 pounds out of the lake the damn truck would have followed the boat back into the water while the clutch was smoking it's ass off.
If anyone has this clutch problem will be glad to send any info that I have to support your case.
I hope we will all stick together on this issue and force Toyota to do the right thing without the hassle.
Wind in my face,
the Screamingeagle!

 

Happy to update that I was able to pull a small trailer and 2 atv's up a small incline the other day on my new TSB clutch. No clutch smell even though I had to give it some gas for sure. I did try it in 4 low just to be sure and it grabbed like my old jeep did.

It's too bad people have these stock and when they try to use it to spec they have so much trouble getting the fix. Keep trying different dealers and you'll find one that will listen eventually.

Also, they make two pressure plates that go into the 2.7L stock. One LUK and one Aisin. They also manufacture the pressure plate used in the TSB from the older v6 gen1 which mates up to the 2.7L nicely. 3 total options here from toyota. The issue isn't the clutch disc it's the pressure plate.

 

Hi 04Screamingeagle;
That sounds like some really bad luk you got!!!

I've tried to carefully read all your posts in this thread, and I have a few corrections and ideas for you to consider.

First off, you mentioned blue smoke. A burning clutch will make a grey-ish smoke, not blue. Blue suggests burning oil. One important thing to note is that there are actually two sources of oil right close to the clutch; the engine rear main seal, and the transmission front seal. If the clutch is being contaminated with oil, this would tend to explain almost all of the symptoms you're describing. That is one possibility that should be considered. I am willing to place this possibility at a fairly low probability due to the next one.

Another thing that you describe that doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense, is the clutch release positioning that you experienced after the first clutch change. You say that when the new clutch was installed, it was releasing very close to the floor, but that after a while the release point moved right up to the top. This suggests to me that the problem isn't actually the clutch at all, but a failure in the release mechanism or hydraulics. You say that the initial problem began after having the release bearing replaced. This is HIGHLY suspect -- it is extremely likely that something with the release mechanism isn't working right -- could be bearing not sliding properly on the shaft, bearing not engaged properly in fork, fork binding on something, stuck or malfunctioning master or slave cylinder/valves. As a result, the clutch is not fully releasing when you release the clutch, which will obviously cause the clutch to slip dramatically as you describe, as well as burn.

The last thing I am going to point out with respect to the actual condition and quality of work done on the vehicle, is that there are quite a number of different clutch parts available for the 4-cyl. There have been several revisions made to the LUK clutches -- both the disk and the pressure plate, as well as a couple of revisions made to the AISIN clutches. I would be curious to know precisely which parts were installed in your truck. Was the dealership careful to order the newest/latest AISIN parts? Or did they just order the first thing in the parts list (which happens to be the older revision of LUK)?

The latest AISIN parts for the 4-cyl Tacoma are the pressure plate for the 3.4L V6, 190 hp, and a brand new friction disk. That engine was rated to 220 footpounds. About 40 footpounds/22% higher than your 2.7. No significant complaints available from the 3.4L camp, which suggests that this clutch is more than adequate for the engine.



Now that those are done, I am concerned about the accuracy of some of the statements you've made.

The clutch, since it is positioned before the transmission, is subject to the exact same torque regardless of whether the vehicle is 2wd, 4wd, or in 4low. The torque comes from the engine, not the wheels. The wheels are just supplying the resistance against the torque, subject to adjustment through the transmission and transfer case. Maximum torque is generated at 3800 rpm with the throttle wide open. Any time you have met those two conditions, the clutch is being subject to 180 footpounds of torque, regardless of how fast you're moving, what gear you're in, or whether or not you are in 4low. In fact, when you're using 4low, you typically are subjecting the clutch to a lower amount of torque than in any higher range since you won't be running at full throttle. Most people with actual clutch failures due to a weak pressure plate will experience the phenomenon at mid-range RPMs in 4th gear, where the engine is spinning fast enough to make approximately peak torque, and the vehicle isn't accelerating particularly hard since the gear ratio doesn't support that -- leading to making the phenomenon easier to observe.

Now one difference between driving on the road and trying to back a trailer up a snowy hill from partially stuck, is that in the latter, you're typically applying the torque to the clutch sooner. You aren't applying more torque, just sooner. Now if yours is having a problem with its release mechanism, it may actually be releasing, just slower. That would explain why you observed the problem offroad 4L rather than on the highway as is more common.

Also note that there don't appear to be any reports anywhere (at least my forum and google searches didn't yield any) of release bearing issues with the 4-cyl. Lots with the 6-cyl, but none with the 4. That you experienced that problem, by itself, suggests that there is more to your problem than the actual clutch quality. I am quite certain that there is some serious problem with the release mechanism on yours.

Please note that even with the clutch stuck in a released position, the clutch pedal will still come back up to the top. There is a spring on the clutch pedal itself, the "clutch turnover spring". If the clutch release isn't working, which in my opinion appears to be the case, you may not even notice it.

 

One LUK and two AISIN, actually.
The same LUK has been through several revisions, but the two AISIN pressure plates are drastically different models. CTX-106 is the weaker one originally coupled with the OLD 2.7, CTX-107 is the stronger one, originally for the 3.4 V6.

Found this very thorough write-up about them...
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005/402099-manual-clutch-quality-tsb-info.html
(hope we're allowed to link external...)

 

Okay lets try the "slipping clutch list. Then we can send it Toyota or give it to an owner who has a problem to help them get a repair. Go to my site and add your information. A first initial, last name, and the first 7 letters or numbers from the vin. no., and if it was or was not repaired. If you go to my site and give me the info., I will start the list. See below as to the format.

Bob Jones 2010 Tacoma, 4 cyl., five speed, reg. cab., vin no.5TEPX4E,----------, bad clutch-repaired by dealer at no charge (**or repair refused) .

When a get a solid number of complaints I will post the list.
Silvert

 

My '09 4x2 is starting to slip on upshifts.....will be asking about it at the next service in a few weeks. 27000 non-towing miles.

 

Took mine in for an oil change today. Service advisor has never heard of a clutch TSB or any clutch problems. He says he'll check on it. We'll see....