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Please advise: uneven "bad toe" tire wear even with "good" alignment.

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Old 02-22-2012, 06:14 PM   #1
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Please advise: uneven "bad toe" tire wear even with "good" alignment.

I have searched this topic thoroughly and think I have a sound understanding of the issues contributing to my problem and the diagnosis.

However, even with castor and toe numbers within spec on alignments, I am getting rapid uneven tire wear that is indicative of bad toe numbers.

Vehicle:
08 Access cab 4wd
OME 886s with factory UCAs
ARB+ Smittybilt XRC8\synthetic line
Factory steel wheels, 255/85/16s

Ever since installing the 886s and ARB, I have been observing persistant wear issues with alternating blocks on the inside edge of the passenger front tire. The driver front is fine and wears evenly. Also constantly present is the loud "thrumming" noise I have heard before on vehicles with bad front suspensions. Every bit of research I have found and tech I have spoken to said this is a symptom of bad toe alignment on that side.

However, each time the vehicle is aligned, it meets the factory spec range on everything but caster. I has been to four separate shops and had all wheels/tires rebalanced in the last 3,000 miles in an effort to properly diagnose the problem.

This is the printout from my last alignment shop session:


As you can see, the toe on the side wearing rapidly was in spec before alignment. After having this work done, the loud rumbling from the front end is still there. This has been the story each time I have had the alignment run. I am going to rotate again and observe wear, but based on past results, I doubt the pattern is going to change.

Any insight as to why the the passenger front is still feathering rapidly even with in spec toe/camber?

On caster: I know the numbers are terrible, but I find the truck very drivable and stable at freeway speeds. This might be due to the 255s, which track like semi trailer tires.

I see two possible courses of action moving forward if this latest alignment definitely has not fixed my problem:

1- Aftermarket UCAs probably either LR or Allpro. I should do this anyway, as my alignment adjustments are pegged just to get the specs I have.

2- Swap 885s in instead of 886s, and retain factory parts.


The 886s are ludicrously stiff. Even with the weight of the ARB + winch, they have not settled much at all in the last 6k miles.


Thank you in advance
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #2
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Cant comment, as I cant read the numbers....
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #3
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Are the tires being static balanced or dynamically balanced? The noise sounds like tire noise, if thereis wear existing then balancing isn't going to stop the noise. Also, once tires begin to wear in a specific way, they will continue. Correcting the alignment will not make a specific pattern disappear.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
Cant comment, as I cant read the numbers....
I see now the scan does not show up well.

Actual/Before

Front left:
Camber: .8/.3
Caster: .6/.1
Toe: .03/.06

Front right:

Camber: .8/.2
Caster: .2/-.5
Toe: .02/.03

Total Front
Cross camber: 0/.2
Cross caster: .4/.6
Total Toe: -.2/-.3

Fractured: I used these tires prior to the OME suspension and ARB for 7k miles. They were noisy, but this noise I have now and the feathering wear did not show up until shortly after the OME/ARB/winch were installed.

Balancing was static. I understand a tire will continue to wear on a given pattern, but if I rotate feathered tires from the passenger front to another hub, the accelerated feathering on the inside blocks stops. Placing the wheels back on the passenger front and marking the treads, its easy to see that the accelerated wear picks up again. Is this unusual?

Thanks again
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:04 PM   #5
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Have you checked your tie rod ends?
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:26 PM   #6
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Try this ^^^^^^^^^

Also have you checked your wheel bearing? It's definitely a problem with that specific corner, I doubt at this point it's a tire problem however.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:27 PM   #7
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Oh. I have also from time to time seen tires that will wear incorrectly due to a defect in the tire. But it is best to eliminate everything else first.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:40 PM   #8
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You will not be able to get your rig within alignment specs with the OME 886 coils and stock UCA's. Now is time to upgrade those UCA's to achieve what you are looking for. I know Metal Tech is running a group buy on the Light Racing UCA's for $375.00 with free shipping.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:51 PM   #9
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also check all of your lca bushings and for play in your upper ball joints.....
had this happen once perfect alingment then tech took for test ride and found it didnt seam right and recheck the #'s and they were off ...upon further looking found lca bushings worn and had movement
just a thought
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:56 PM   #10
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Turn your front wheels side to side and watch the lower control arm bushings. Are they doing this?



http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...ts-mounts.html

On an alignment rig, this will not be apparent, because the tires are on turntables that move with very little friction.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #11
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I do have about 3/16" play in the left lca rear bushing. I never checked it when new, so I do not have a reference point. I drew a paint pen line and measured the deviation throughout the steering range. It is not nearly as severe as the video above.

In checking the tie rod end, should the steering knuckle and tie rod end remain horizontally aligned throughout the range of motion, i.e., if I draw a vertical line down both of them, should it remain aligned throughout the steering range?

Upper ball joint looks fine.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:09 PM   #12
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I don't think so. With the lift, the tie rods should be on a downward angle. And because there's still some caster present, there will be a camber change when the wheels are turned. Is there play in the tie rod joint?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:43 PM   #13
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The tie rod end should be able to move as the knuckle cycles up and down. You shouldn't have any play though. Same with the other end of the tie rod.

Edit: let me rephrase, as it's a ball and socket it should be able to rotate but should have no play.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGRS View Post
I do have about 3/16" play in the left lca rear bushing. I never checked it when new, so I do not have a reference point. I drew a paint pen line and measured the deviation throughout the steering range. It is not nearly as severe as the video above.

In checking the tie rod end, should the steering knuckle and tie rod end remain horizontally aligned throughout the range of motion, i.e., if I draw a vertical line down both of them, should it remain aligned throughout the steering range?

Upper ball joint looks fine.
i dont think you sghould have any play in the lca bushings......
ill check mine when its dry out.....
do u have any wheel shake at any speeds....like a vibe???
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