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2012 air injector with CAI and Headers

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Old 05-01-2012, 11:05 AM   #1
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2012 air injector with CAI and Headers

So I have been doing some thinking.

The 2012 has the air injector / smog pump to blow hot air into the Cat to make it work faster.

If I will be running headers and exhaust without Cats could I just remove this?

If its removed could I also use a 2011 TRD CAI?

Thoughts?
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
So I have been doing some thinking.

The 2012 has the air injector / smog pump to blow hot air into the Cat to make it work faster.

If I will be running headers and exhaust without Cats could I just remove this?

If its removed could I also use a 2011 TRD CAI?

Thoughts?
Interested as well...
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #3
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Hmmm... I am interested in an answer for this one.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #4
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Removing this would be against federal law. You would probably get a CEL after removing that. Also headers wouldn't compensate for the smog pump.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Removing this would be against federal law. You would probably get a CEL after removing that. Also headers wouldn't compensate for the smog pump.
It may be against federal law, but in my county In WA state we do not have emission laws. In Skagit county you can legally sell a vehicle without a catalytic converter. Now is it still illegal to remove yes, but how will you get caught. No vehicles are ever emission tested in this county and when I go to sell or even trade in it wont matter.

And a cel can be avoided with a Sensor Simulator.

And I though the Smog pump goes into the headers right before the Cat.Thats why UDR had to develop new headers!
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
It may be against federal law, but in my county In WA state we do not have emission laws. In Skagit county you can legally sell a vehicle without a catalytic converter. Now is it still illegal to remove yes, but how will you get caught. No vehicles are ever emission tested in this county and when I go to sell or even trade in it wont matter.

And a cel can be avoided with a Sensor Simulator.

And I though the Smog pump goes into the headers right before the Cat.Thats why UDR had to develop new headers!
Ok what's the benefit of removing the system?

Also I didn't mean a CEL for the O2 sensor. I bet there is a smog pump status is checked by the ECU.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Ok what's the benefit of removing the system?

Also I didn't mean a CEL for the O2 sensor. I bet there is a smog pump status is checked by the ECU.
I was thinking it provides better flow of exhaust without Cats and reduces weight. My argument to the point of Cats don't restrict flow is why don't track cars or off road trucks and race cars run them then.

I don't believe the Smog pump has a sensor from what I have seen. But I could be wrong.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
I was thinking it provides better flow of exhaust without Cats and reduces weight. My argument to the point of Cats don't restrict flow is why don't track cars or off road trucks and race cars run them then.

I don't believe the Smog pump has a sensor from what I have seen. But I could be wrong.
The reason race cars don't have cats is because maximum horsepower is wanted. No cats make for great peak numbers. Peak numbers don't help on the street since usually they are at high RPM. Having cats promotes exhaust scavenging at low to mid RPM which makes for more useful power. Low to mid power is especially useful in a truck.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #9
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Cats do not promote HP At all even at low RPM. Cats are there for one reason only to reduce "greenhouse Gasses" thats all I'm supercharged so got as much low end power as I will ever need I want loud great sound forms smooth open path and Cats do not allow for this. The only obstacle I want in the way of my exhaust is the resonator and the windshield of the car behind me.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
Cats do not promote HP At all even at low RPM. Cats are there for one reason only to reduce "greenhouse Gasses" thats all I'm supercharged so got as much low end power as I will ever need I want loud great sound forms smooth open path and Cats do not allow for this. The only obstacle I want in the way of my exhaust is the resonator and the windshield of the car behind me.
It has been proven that low to mid range power is reduced when the cats are removed. The DTLT headers lose power until 3000rpm. Not everyone has a supercharger.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
It has been proven that low to mid range power is reduced when the cats are removed. The DTLT headers lose power until 3000rpm. Not everyone has a supercharger.
Are there dynos to prove this. Not saying your lying just extremely hard to believe. But again any info on removing the smog injector with removal of cats
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
Are there dynos to prove this. Not saying your lying just extremely hard to believe. But again any info on removing the smog injector with removal of cats
Doug Thorley's dyno sheet on their website shows a drop in power until 3000 RPM for their long tube headers. Exhaust isn't about simply throwing on the biggest pipe you can fit.

Exhaust scavenging is a real thing. Ever seen the expansion chamber on a 2 stroke? It isn't there for looks.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Doug Thorley's dyno sheet on their website shows a drop in power until 3000 RPM for their long tube headers. Exhaust isn't about simply throwing on the biggest pipe you can fit.

Exhaust scavenging is a real thing. Ever seen the expansion chamber on a 2 stroke? It isn't there for looks.
This guy knows.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:27 PM   #14
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This can simply be corrected with more back pressure in theory that's all it takes this can be done in many ways. Adding restictors as in Cats or smaller piping. This is why you can't run a true duel exhaust and why true straight piped runs like shit.

So Yes you may loose HP at low RPMs but what you gain in higher RPMs makes up for it. The Higher RPMs will create more back pressure creating better HP higher in the RPM range.

Or take cats off run propped piping and you loose no HP at top or bottem.

Take cats off replace with proper piping to create correct amount of back pressure and your good.

Cats are for EPA tree hugging Al Gore loving hippy purposes only an exhaust made to be run without cats will produce more power than a system that has to work around them.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
So Yes you may loose HP at low RPMs but what you gain in higher RPMs makes up for it. The Higher RPMs will create more back pressure creating better HP higher in the RPM range.
So how will you be using your truck? Is it destined for the track? Keeping the revs up in day-to-day use is not desirable.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
This can simply be corrected with more back pressure in theory that's all it takes this can be done in many ways. Adding restictors as in Cats or smaller piping. This is why you can't run a true duel exhaust and why true straight piped runs like shit.

So Yes you may loose HP at low RPMs but what you gain in higher RPMs makes up for it. The Higher RPMs will create more back pressure creating better HP higher in the RPM range.

Or take cats off run propped piping and you loose no HP at top or bottem.

Take cats off replace with proper piping to create correct amount of back pressure and your good.

Cats are for EPA tree hugging Al Gore loving hippy purposes only an exhaust made to be run without cats will produce more power than a system that has to work around them.
There is no backpressure in the exhaust. If there was that would be bad. Why go through all the trouble of trying to make the exhaust flow like stock when you can just leave the cats on? The high RPM power is not worth it. You like driving a 4 banger Honda?

Cats are for treehuggers? That's a derp statement.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
There is no backpressure in the exhaust. If there was that would be bad. Why go through all the trouble of trying to make the exhaust flow like stock when you can just leave the cats on? The high RPM power is not worth it. You like driving a 4 banger Honda?

Cats are for treehuggers? That's a derp statement.
So you are saying that the exhaust system has no pressure in it. The engine requires pressure from the exhaust system to run properly. And why were cats implemented in the first place then?

Again to the statement above I'm supercharged and want more HP higher in the RPM range
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aportis72 View Post
So you are saying that the exhaust system has no pressure in it. The engine requires pressure from the exhaust system to run properly. And why were cats implemented in the first place then?

Again to the statement above I'm supercharged and want more HP higher in the RPM range
Back pressure is minimal. I believe what is in play is exit velocity but I'm not fluid dynamics expert.

The cats are there to clean the exhaust.

What supercharger? A centrifugal supercharger like the URD kit will give more high RPM power. A roots like the TRD makes power in the low to mid RPM range.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:23 PM   #19
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Hell just cut off the exhaust before the cats and be done with it. Weight savings and the zero back pressure to get the braaaaaaap, braaaaaap you're looking for.
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:30 PM   #20
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The issue is going to be getting the ecu to play nice with your new exhaust setup. Agreed that cats were developed to more efficiently burn exhausts and they are definitely not needed in a racing setup of any kind. If you are willing to invest the time and money you can certainly design an exhaust system that operates more efficiently without cats across the spectrum.
If youre not going to be racing I would definitely think you should find a way to keep the pump and cats. Probably save you a LOT of trouble.
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