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Old 09-28-2012, 08:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
TRAC - traction control ("limited slip") with engine regulation
Auto LSD - traction control ("limited slip") without engine regulation



Yes.
  • 2005-2006
  • 2007-2008
  • 2009-2011
  • 2012+

All four groups share the same equipment (sans a VSC button in 2005-2006; sans an ATRAC button in 2005-2008), but are programmed differently.


Which is why David has his 2009-2011 thread: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...ar-locker.html

and I have my 2005-2008 thread: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tec...explained.html
There need to be just a little more added (at least for the 2009-2011 model)

TRAC - traction control ("limited slip") with engine regulation (IN H2)

Auto LSD - traction control ("limited slip") without engine regulation (IN H2)

TRAC - traction control ("limited slip") without engine regulation (IN H4)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, what it seems like is that they renamed TRAC in H4 (without regulation) to AUTO LSD (which is a goood idea, to correct an obvious point of confusion)

It also sounds like they also added TRAC with engine regulation to H4...?

That would mean the 2012 Off Road 4WD has TEN drive modes!
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:21 PM   #22
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TRAC has engine regulation while Auto LSD does not. I guess that means the system will cut power from the engine if it detects too much wheel spin?

Is there a way to get Auto LSD (no engine regulation) while in 4hi? If I am trying to climb a steep grade covered in snow I do not want the engine to cut the power on me. I would like as much limited slip help as possible though.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt View Post
TRAC has engine regulation while Auto LSD does not. I guess that means the system will cut power from the engine if it detects too much wheel spin?

Is there a way to get Auto LSD (no engine regulation) while in 4hi? If I am trying to climb a steep grade covered in snow I do not want the engine to cut the power on me. I would like as much limited slip help as possible though.
If yours is like the 2009-2011, then like David K said "TRAC - traction control ("limited slip") without engine regulation (IN H4)"

What I posted was incorrect.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
That would mean the 2012 Off Road 4WD has TEN drive modes!
Like I said, it's ridiculous.

I haven't gone to a field to try to wrap my head around all of that yet. I'll take your guide along to help, and compare it with the manual. Clustering the controls into a few dials or sliders would seem to make it much easier to understand and control the various systems.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
If yours is like the 2009-2011, then like David K said "TRAC - traction control ("limited slip") without engine regulation (IN H4)"

What I posted was incorrect.
I posted the chart from Toyota above. In H4 there is no regulation, only in H2... on the 2009-2011 Tacoma.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #26
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Was stuck the other nite, right rear 3 feet in the air, left front burried in sand. I had everything turned off. Would turning back on the TRAC have helped? It seems to take away to much revs for it to work in either sand or mud for me. 60" hi-lift jack to the rescue!!
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
Was stuck the other nite, right rear 3 feet in the air, left front burried in sand. I had everything turned off. Would turning back on the TRAC have helped? It seems to take away to much revs for it to work in either sand or mud for me. 60" hi-lift jack to the rescue!!
If you are 2wd I would have used ALSD but even then you probably wouldn't have gotten out.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #28
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4x4 here, I don't know if front and rear lockers would have gotten me out... All part of the fun. Wheeling alone at nite, got what I deserved. 2 hours digging and jacking in the rain, got out of the situation, smiled, looked at my now really dirty truck, and saw it was smiling also. sweeeet
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
Was stuck the other nite, right rear 3 feet in the air, left front burried in sand. I had everything turned off. Would turning back on the TRAC have helped? It seems to take away to much revs for it to work in either sand or mud for me. 60" hi-lift jack to the rescue!!
IF you are a 4WD... NEVER turn off TRAC or AUTO LSD if you want the most traction... If you understand open differentials, once one tire on an axle leaves the ground or gets into slime, it will SPIN and the 'good tire' on the ground does nothing. LIMITED SLIP (no matter what form) does just that... limits the amount of slip/spin so that moving power goes to the 'good tire'.

There is a BIG advantage to having limited slip or lockers on any off road vehicle, used off road. When you disable the system (VSC OFF MODE), you can expect to get stuck until you re-activate it... lower your tire pressure, get a push or pull!

Lockers are the ultimate for off roading, so get the Off Road Tacoma 4WD which has the rear locker.

A-TRAC is the next best thing and it works the front and rear tires for near-locker-like traction, without the steering disadvantage or expense of adding a front locker.

Limited Slip (TRAC and AUTO LSD) is the next best traction aide over 4WD alone.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #30
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Well, like I said, it takes away to much engine rpm's, and nothing happens. Deep sand and mud are probably not the best terrains to be using the factory settings to go through. Wheel speed is needed along with traction. Will have the throttle floored and the revs just fall, leaving no power to get going. I personally don't think that these electronic gadgets at their present state, help at all in bad terrain. May be next gen will be better. My impressions only.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
4x4 here, I don't know if front and rear lockers would have gotten me out... All part of the fun. Wheeling alone at nite, got what I deserved. 2 hours digging and jacking in the rain, got out of the situation, smiled, looked at my now really dirty truck, and saw it was smiling also. sweeeet
Werd. The truck is more than capable of getting you into trouble no matter what mode you use. This thing is a monster truck compared to everything else I used to wheel.


That said, I am now sort of confused.

I have a MT 2012 Sport with the yellow wire mod.

I'll leave out what I thought was happening - what modes are available and how do I get to them ?
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:38 PM   #32
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http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docum...df/sec_2-4.pdf

This describes the button function in a 2012 Tacoma. Doesn't go into depth on the actual operation of the systems though.

Pertinent info starts on page 202 of the manual (or page 29 of the pdf)
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
Well, like I said, it takes away to much engine rpm's, and nothing happens. Deep sand and mud are probably not the best terrains to be using the factory settings to go through. Wheel speed is needed along with traction. Will have the throttle floored and the revs just fall, leaving no power to get going. I personally don't think that these electronic gadgets at their present state, help at all in bad terrain. May be next gen will be better. My impressions only.
Sounds like you had VSC on, which regulated engine output. David K's handy reference might've helped:
=================================

UP TO NINE DRIVE MODES

1) Normal street driving: H2 TRAC ON and VSC is on.
2) Slippery conditions, to get moving from a stuck: H2 AUTO LSD ON (VSC is off under 30 mph). Press VSC button once while moving or stopped.
3) Spinning tires prefered: H2 VSC OFF/ TRAC OFF. Press and hold down VSC button 3+ seconds, while stopped.

4) Loose dirt, sand, snow: H4 TRAC ON and VSC is on.
5) Spinning tires prefered, off pavement: H4 VSC OFF/ TRAC OFF. Press and hold down VSC button 3+ seconds, while stopped.

6) Spinning tires prefered with low gearing torque: L4 (with A-TRAC off)
7) Steep grades, large rocks, deep mud, severe traction conditions: L4 with A-TRAC ON. Press A-TRAC button once.
8) Spinning tires in front only: L4 with REAR DIFFERENTIAL LOCKED.
9) L4 REAR LOCKED and A-TRAC ON. A-TRAC comes on automatically when speed drops to under 3 mph to provide front traction to get you going, again.

=================================

Numbers 4 & 5 sound the most promising for what you described.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:41 AM   #34
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What a clusterfuck.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:34 AM   #35
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Right there on line 4 it says TRAC on VSC on for sand and mud. The VSC is what stops power from being sent to the wheels I think. For spinning tires prefered turn off VSC, had that off as well as TRAC. The most movement I got while stuck was using the brakes and throttle at the same time, like the TRAC system does. I guess it's just not aggresive enough for me and my expectations. It's a cluster fuck because these systems are not intuitive to use at all. For my wheeling needs, TRAC is useless. VSC is for people that don't know how to drive and can't slide a vehicle and crash and die.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:56 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
Right there on line 4 it says TRAC on VSC on for sand and mud. The VSC is what stops power from being sent to the wheels I think. For spinning tires prefered turn off VSC, had that off as well as TRAC. The most movement I got while stuck was using the brakes and throttle at the same time, like the TRAC system does. I guess it's just not aggresive enough for me and my expectations. It's a cluster fuck because these systems are not intuitive to use at all. For my wheeling needs, TRAC is useless. VSC is for people that don't know how to drive and can't slide a vehicle and crash and die.
My point was that you had VSC On, which didn't allow you to manually control engine output as desired. IIRC, ATRAC takes more aggressive action than TRAC, and it may have been of more use to you. Also, if you'd had VSC Off / TRAC On, maybe you wouldn't have gotten stuck in the first place.

Of course, even front & rear lockers can't solve all problems, and it sounds like you would've been bogged down no matter what was happening in the differentials. Maybe what you really need are tires better suited to the terrain you frequent?

I agree that Toyota needs to straighten out their traction and stability system controls, but a properly working ESC system can be a very useful tool. That said, be glad that Toyota allows turning it off. They haven't always allowed disabling VSC, and as time goes on, I won't be surprised if government regulations require some form of active ESC at all times.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:21 AM   #37
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Oh no, what my problem was, and is, is doing stupid shit alone wheeling. Always run off road with TRAC and VSC off. Tried a line that was, well, undoable in that 100' deep sand. These sand trails are truly bottomless. I'll try VSC off, TRAC on today and see if I've been screwing up. Just need the wheel speed, can't seem to get it to rev out with TRAC in opperation. Revs go up, traction starts to fail, revs go down, VSC off TRAC on in my expirience. That's why I end up turning everything off off road.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:34 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadesw View Post
Oh no, what my problem was, and is, is doing stupid shit alone wheeling. Always run off road with TRAC and VSC off. Tried a line that was, well, undoable in that 100' deep sand. These sand trails are truly bottomless. I'll try VSC off, TRAC on today and see if I've been screwing up. Just need the wheel speed, can't seem to get it to rev out with TRAC in opperation. Revs go up, traction starts to fail, revs go down, VSC off TRAC on in my expirience. That's why I end up turning everything off off road.
I assume that regardless of the stability and traction settings, you're airing down for deep sand.

I hope you find that VSC Off / TRAC On keeps you moving just enough to avoid getting stuck. From what I've seen, momentum is key to dealing with sand, and maybe TRAC will be more effective if you aren't stopped. If it doesn't, then I guess your next steps would be tires and a front locker, neither of which are inexpensive.

Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out. I don't think I'll be doing a lot of sand driving, but it's good to know what's working.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:42 AM   #39
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I find sand to be as treacherous to drive in as mud, big mo is the key to forward progress here. I'll bring the camera and take some pics, not of a stuck truck today, tho. Yes I do air down, I'm running 275/70r17 Silent Armors. Pics and TRAC expierience upcoming. Thank you for being patient with me not getting the TRAC thing right in my head, just used to levers and lockers.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:51 AM   #40
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All this push button & rotary knob stuff is new to me, too.

I'm trying to learn all I can before a solo truck trip next month, so any good discussion of stability and traction control catches my eye. I don't want to get stuck or look like a button punching fool in front of my friends.
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