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Old 09-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #1
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Clutch burns easily in reverse

I've read a lot of other threads on clutch issues, but my '12 tacoma V6 6spd struggles mightily when reversing up a steep or semi-steep incline (paved or not). Seems the gearing is incredible "tall," as in I'm having to give it loads of gas while only letting out the clutch pedal a tiny bit. The inevitable outcome has been a burning clutch, rancid smell and all. While I'm not in the business of regularly reversing up inclines, my driveway has been the main culprit so far and even if I do it once every couple months, that seems like too much to be smelling my clutch getting toasted.

Any other people have this same problem? Any suggestions? Put in 4 LO? Seems like the truck should be able to back up a paved dry surface, incline or not, without roasting the clutch and not having to put it into 4x4. When it does happen, I'm probably only "riding the clutch" for 4 or 5 seconds while backing up... but there doesn't seem to be anyway around this other than stalling out, or backing up much faster than is safe given the narrowness of my driveway. I've driven a manual transmission my entire life and never had clutch problems (put 360k miles on my last one)... but this is my first truck though.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #2
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At first when I read your post, I though I was going to have to say something like "its you, not the truck", but I looked up the specs for that RA60F tranny (is yours an M-tranny? Or an F-tranny?), and discovered that the reverse ratio is an absolutely INSANE 3.61:1. That's a higher ratio than your 1st gear (4.17:1). The 5-speed MT has 1st 3.95:1 and R 4.22:1 -- this is the proper way of doing it, reverse LOWER than 1st.

Combine your crazy high reverse ratio with your 3.727 axle ratio, you're running an overall reverse ratio of 13.45:1. Mine is a much more comfortable 17.30:1.

NOT COOL TOYOTA!!! NOT COOL!!!!

The only thing I can suggest to you, since radical transectomy is obviously not an option, is to research what it would take to perform a 2L mod on your truck. That will bring you to 34.6:1, which I'm sure is lower than you'd really like, but I don't see much alternative.

Its either that, or learn how to drive really really fast in reverse.


2L mod will involve tricking the computer into thinking that the ADD is in the locked position when it actually isn't.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
At first when I read your post, I though I was going to have to say something like "its you, not the truck", but I looked up the specs for that RA60F tranny (is yours an M-tranny? Or an F-tranny?), and discovered that the reverse ratio is an absolutely INSANE 3.61:1. That's a higher ratio than your 1st gear (4.17:1). The 5-speed MT has 1st 3.95:1 and R 4.22:1 -- this is the proper way of doing it, reverse LOWER than 1st.

Combine your crazy high reverse ratio with your 3.727 axle ratio, you're running an overall reverse ratio of 13.45:1. Mine is a much more comfortable 17.30:1.

NOT COOL TOYOTA!!! NOT COOL!!!!

The only thing I can suggest to you, since radical transectomy is obviously not an option, is to research what it would take to perform a 2L mod on your truck. That will bring you to 34.6:1, which I'm sure is lower than you'd really like, but I don't see much alternative.

Its either that, or learn how to drive really really fast in reverse.


2L mod will involve tricking the computer into thinking that the ADD is in the locked position when it actually isn't.
Wow, thank you for that explanation. Although I'm unfamiliar with much of the technical aspects of what you just described, I gathered enough to realize that I'm not crazy and haven't forgotten how to drive a stick shift.

As far as the M vs. F tranny question... I have no idea, how would I go about finding out? In my user manual?

Based on what you describe, it definitely sounds like a shitty setup and my personal experience thus far attests to that. Thanks for the info! Any other comments or suggestions are appreciated.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:59 PM   #4
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yeah burn outs in reverse have a better spin and cause tire smoke much easier than in first
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:06 PM   #5
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I was reversing up a hill without touching the clutch, I punched it a little and it just started slipping and a huge cloud of smoke puffed out.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #6
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Toyota really fucked up on the reverse gearing. Someone was apparently hitting the saki too hard. I eventually solved it by installing a twin stick T-case and 4.56 gears. I back up in low range. There are ways to do this electronically too, by defeating the ADD in 4WD. A search should find it. I did the new case to eliminate the 4WD ECU and electrical engagement completely. Absolutely love it
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
At first when I read your post, I though I was going to have to say something like "its you, not the truck", but I looked up the specs for that RA60F tranny (is yours an M-tranny? Or an F-tranny?), and discovered that the reverse ratio is an absolutely INSANE 3.61:1. That's a higher ratio than your 1st gear (4.17:1). The 5-speed MT has 1st 3.95:1 and R 4.22:1 -- this is the proper way of doing it, reverse LOWER than 1st.

Combine your crazy high reverse ratio with your 3.727 axle ratio, you're running an overall reverse ratio of 13.45:1. Mine is a much more comfortable 17.30:1.

NOT COOL TOYOTA!!! NOT COOL!!!!

The only thing I can suggest to you, since radical transectomy is obviously not an option, is to research what it would take to perform a 2L mod on your truck. That will bring you to 34.6:1, which I'm sure is lower than you'd really like, but I don't see much alternative.

Its either that, or learn how to drive really really fast in reverse.


2L mod will involve tricking the computer into thinking that the ADD is in the locked position when it actually isn't.
Nice summary Shemp. 2lo reverse is actually nice. Even with 4.56 gears it's fine. You can do 30mph in reverse with the stock gearing
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:32 PM   #8
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Yep, it's geared too high.

My ex-girlfriend's driveway is super steep and situated on a blind corner. It's very difficult to back out of there. You have two choices, slow and slip the clutch while looking for cars coming around the corner, or go fast and try not to hit the mailbox across the street. What I would do is: start truck, place trans in reverse, let the clutch out till it starts to engage, give it a little gas, THEN release the parking brake after the truck is already straining against the brakes. I found that if I kept the RPM around 1200, I could usually get out of the driveway without smelling the clutch.

I had considered some rewiring to allow 2LO operation, since using 4LO on pavement while manuvering is bad news. It's not an issue anymore, I upgraded to new girlfriend who lives in a condo with a flat parking lot.

The 2LO mod has been discussed on here before. There's at least one guy who has done it on a 2nd gen with the stock transfercase. The ultimate would be a twin stick FJ case swap.

Interesting to know that the 4banger is geared lower. I have one of those to drive at work and still have issues getting out of steep driveways. I know the smell of clutch very well.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:17 PM   #9
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One of these days I'm going to do an electrical 2lo mod for this reason, if you think its bad backing the truck uphill, try with a trailer, even a small one. Bigger tires compounds the issue, as it makes the effective gear ratio even higher.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #10
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I didn't think reverse was that steep on this truck. The Civic I learned to drive stick on had a 3.15:1 reverse. THAT was fast. That car could do 45 mph going backwards!

If you can get the clutch all the way out before the hill it only reverses at about 2 mph at warm idle and you can save the clutch a bit. I have to use this trick from time to time, otherwise I find myself trying to slip it the whole time at a higher rpm to slow it down.

But, it is a truck, they really really should have a slower reverse than that. PITA when hooking up a trailer.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landphil View Post
One of these days I'm going to do an electrical 2lo mod for this reason, if you think its bad backing the truck uphill, try with a trailer, even a small one. Bigger tires compounds the issue, as it makes the effective gear ratio even higher.
Backing up a trailer with my 6 speed sucks! Its really the one thing that really bothers me about my truck
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcflymarty View Post
As far as the M vs. F tranny question... I have no idea, how would I go about finding out? In my user manual?
Joke... "tranny":
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcflymarty View Post
I've read a lot of other threads on clutch issues, but my '12 tacoma V6 6spd struggles mightily when reversing up a steep or semi-steep incline (paved or not). Seems the gearing is incredible "tall," as in I'm having to give it loads of gas while only letting out the clutch pedal a tiny bit. The inevitable outcome has been a burning clutch, rancid smell and all. While I'm not in the business of regularly reversing up inclines, my driveway has been the main culprit so far and even if I do it once every couple months, that seems like too much to be smelling my clutch getting toasted.

Any other people have this same problem? Any suggestions? Put in 4 LO? Seems like the truck should be able to back up a paved dry surface, incline or not, without roasting the clutch and not having to put it into 4x4. When it does happen, I'm probably only "riding the clutch" for 4 or 5 seconds while backing up... but there doesn't seem to be anyway around this other than stalling out, or backing up much faster than is safe given the narrowness of my driveway. I've driven a manual transmission my entire life and never had clutch problems (put 360k miles on my last one)... but this is my first truck though.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!!
Thread bump... I have the same issue backing my trailer up a hill. Anyone back trailers up in 4 low?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #14
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hah, funny this thread got bumped. delivered a bed to my friends house the other day...had to back up a decent incline in his driveway and my truck sounded like it wanted to explode trying to get up the hill...smelled clutch for about 15 minutes...ugh
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:54 AM   #15
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I use 4lo when I can, but situation doesn't always allow. So then there will be smoke/smell. Anyone know any good post or threads for a 2lo mod?
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #16
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I do recall reverse being pretty tall on my '06. But if you want tall, try taking an EVOC course and bouncing a Crown Vic off the rev limiter in reverse... ~62mph.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #17
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Get the clutch out with just little gas, then give it the throttle....and hey Toyota, we really shouldn't need to practice to reverse without burning clutches! I think they do it so they don't have to make manuals any more. It's insane how tall the gearing is.
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