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2013 V6 DC w/ a/c leak again--What to do?

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Old 10-21-2012, 09:28 PM   #1
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2013 V6 DC w/ a/c leak again--What to do?

I posted a thread a few days ago about a brand new(1 day old) Tacoma w/ a leak in the a/c. I took it in to the dealer on Saturday and they fixed it--claimed the o-ring was bad. I was out this evening with my son searching around for scorpions with our black lights, when I decided to check on the connection by shining the uv light through the grille. To my surprise, there is still a leak(bright green oil around the connection). This is not residual from the first leak because I checked it when I picked it up from service and it was clean. I have to say that i'm beginning to get a little upset at this point especially because the service manager told me last time that his tech implied to him that I might of added dye to the system in an attempt to repair it myself. I told them that that was absolutely absurd. They informed me that the factory does not add dye to the a/c systems and that they were just baffled on how it got there. This is the kind of stuff that you do not want to hear just two days after you drop $30K on a new vehicle.
I was feeling a little uneasy when I noticed the leak the first time around but now this is beginning to get ridiculous. Not only do I feel uneasy about the leak but I do not have the time to keep taking the vehicle in for service. The truck now has 150 miles on it(more than half is from going back and forth to the dealership). Any advice on what I should do?
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:41 PM   #2
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If you have the opportunity, utilize the lemon law. In NY, dealer ship has to accept it back. Second mess up within the same system, never will be right.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #4
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Get your paper work together now, dealership should have put some paper work in there about how they have certain responsibilities. Bring that. That doesn't work, get a lawyer.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:43 AM   #5
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^^^x2
Also be weary of that dye crap. They are looking for an excuse to bail out if this becomes a bigger issue.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:49 AM   #6
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Warranty issue, dealer is obviously screwing you around. Don't try to fix it yourself (again), they could blame the leak on you.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLynch View Post
If you have the opportunity, utilize the lemon law. In NY, dealer ship has to accept it back. Second mess up within the same system, never will be right.
I think there's a bit more to it than just having the same problem happen only 2 times. No need to be crying wolf so soon.

OP: Do your research on this, as there is a Federal Lemon Law, as well as a State Lemon Law (might be under a different name). It would be worth checking up on, but my first move would be to take it to a different dealership. Even if that means going out of your way to do so.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:21 AM   #8
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I'd have them replace the hose and condenser where it's leaking. (I believe I remember that's where it's leaking).
If they don't want to, start threatening with a lawsuit.
Those service guys are dumb asses. I'm pretty sure most refrigerant these days has dye in it. How else are you going to find where a leak is? Dummy's.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:47 AM   #9
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Refrigerant does not come with dye, it would have to be added. My state has a three day law where you can change your mind about the purchase. I would contact Toyota corporate and discuss the issue with them. They sell top quality vehicles and this one should not have passed QC and left the factory.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:13 PM   #10
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I put in a call to Toyota first thing this morning and explained the situation. The rep said she escalated the call up and a senior customer service rep will be in contact with me in 24 hours. I will give it until tomorrow and if I don't hear from them I will take the advice of others and lawyer up. The service manager at the dealer that did the repair left me a message today and stated that he spoke with a guy by the name of Roger Mickles, a senior field engineer, and he verified that since 2005 all Tacomas assembled with Delphi systems have UV dye added at the factory. This sucks that I have a truck that is now 5 days old and I cannot run my a/c or roll down the windows(just tinted) and I live in Phoenix where it's still in the mid 80's. It also sucks that I will probably not be able to drive my new truck this weekend because it will most likely be at a dealership getting repaired. I have always owned Toyota trucks because of their reliability but now i'm beginning to lose confidence in them--not just because of the leak but because of how poorly I feel that i'm being treated.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLynch View Post
If you have the opportunity, utilize the lemon law. In NY, dealer ship has to accept it back. Second mess up within the same system, never will be right.
I don't think that is true.

http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_LemonGuide.html

The New York Law just says a Reasonable number of attempts to repair the vehicle Not two.

It also states that the defect Must Substantially Impair the Vehicles Value.

OP:
Does the AC not run due to low pressure or are you just not running it due to the dye being visual with a black light?

They have had one shot at the repair and you are talking lawyers etc.... Knee Jerk Reaction if you ask me. Either give them a chance to fix it or go to another dealer. I don't think you are being fair in any case. It is a good thing you didn't have a major issue, I wouldn't want to see what you would do then.

Wow.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacopa View Post
I put in a call to Toyota first thing this morning and explained the situation. The rep said she escalated the call up and a senior customer service rep will be in contact with me in 24 hours. I will give it until tomorrow and if I don't hear from them I will take the advice of others and lawyer up. The service manager at the dealer that did the repair left me a message today and stated that he spoke with a guy by the name of Roger Mickles, a senior field engineer, and he verified that since 2005 all Tacomas assembled with Delphi systems have UV dye added at the factory. This sucks that I have a truck that is now 5 days old and I cannot run my a/c or roll down the windows(just tinted) and I live in Phoenix where it's still in the mid 80's. It also sucks that I will probably not be able to drive my new truck this weekend because it will most likely be at a dealership getting repaired. I have always owned Toyota trucks because of their reliability but now i'm beginning to lose confidence in them--not just because of the leak but because of how poorly I feel that i'm being treated.
Any updates on your situation?

I have had the same experience with my 2013 DC.
I didn't notice the leak till 3 weeks from purchase, but I believe I had more oil present (tow hook covered and oil on the skid plate.) I'd bet mine has had the leak since the manufacture date of 10/17/2012. Dealer service center replaced the o-ring and it is leaking again the next day. They started with the "there shouldn't be any dye in there" line with me. I mentioned I had read of another owner having this same problem and being told the same thing to later find out dye is from the factory. I also mentioned the leak returning the next day after the fix. I was told they would use a sniffer to check that the new o-ring fixed it. I don't see how the oil could fit through without enough freon for the sniffer to detect.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLynch View Post
If you have the opportunity, utilize the lemon law. In NY, dealer ship has to accept it back. Second mess up within the same system, never will be right.
Not gonna happen on Lemon Law. There would not be sufficient failure in the proper systems required for a lemon law in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure2Comply View Post
Refrigerant does not come with dye, it would have to be added. My state has a three day law where you can change your mind about the purchase. I would contact Toyota corporate and discuss the issue with them. They sell top quality vehicles and this one should not have passed QC and left the factory.
Since 2010 many of the manufacturers have actually had dye in the systems from the factory.


To the OP:

Don't bail your confidence based on one simple situation. The dealership made a reasonable attempt to replace a suspected seal that failed. Sometimes a seal will work properly shortly after a repair has been made, but an issue may crop up after the system has been run under the higher pressures from normal operation on the road. More than likely there was an issue with the line itself and they suspected a bad seal. When the seal was replaced it corrected the issue temporarily. Even a good technician can make this simple mistake because the metal sections of the piping rarely fail, yet seals fail more commonly. Give them at least one chance to make things right.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:46 PM   #14
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Solved...

Well I'm a Technician at a Toyota Dealership and I'm here to tell you, they come with dye from the factory now. They did not in the past, but they do now. I have a 2012 Tacoma, got in an accident and poked the condenser, it looked like I pummeled the hulk. Also you cannot go in demanding this or that part be replaced under warranty, you will get nowhere with that attitude in most dealerships. Take it back to the original dealership you purchased the vehicle from and nicely ask for some sort of compensation for the trouble you have gone through, you should be able to get something (tank of gas maybe?). If you go in there with an attitude and plan on using a lawsuit as a backup, you better be very well researched because I can GUARANTEE You 99% of the people reading this cannot afford a serious legal battle with Toyota because you will more than likely lose. If the problem is fixed a second time and occurs a third, then you will start getting some recognition from the factory, they will send out special technicians to the dealership to assess the situation. Basically, stuff happens, everything can't always be perfect, just give them a chance to fix it before you go apesh*t or it probably won't end up well for you, I have personally seen several customers asked not to return... ever.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelak View Post
Any updates on your situation?

I have had the same experience with my 2013 DC.
I didn't notice the leak till 3 weeks from purchase, but I believe I had more oil present (tow hook covered and oil on the skid plate.) I'd bet mine has had the leak since the manufacture date of 10/17/2012. Dealer service center replaced the o-ring and it is leaking again the next day. They started with the "there shouldn't be any dye in there" line with me. I mentioned I had read of another owner having this same problem and being told the same thing to later find out dye is from the factory. I also mentioned the leak returning the next day after the fix. I was told they would use a sniffer to check that the new o-ring fixed it. I don't see how the oil could fit through without enough freon for the sniffer to detect.
r134a(Suva) is a smaller molecule than the oil. If the oil is leaking, so is the Suva. R-12(Freon) was the other way around. The oil would leak out and run on Freon alone, and burn out the compressor.
Do not run the AC until the leak is repaired. The compressor is under warranty, but do you really want to shorten the life expectancy of it by running it with a known leak?
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaTechnician View Post
Well I'm a Technician at a Toyota Dealership and I'm here to tell you, they come with dye from the factory now. They did not in the past, but they do now. I have a 2012 Tacoma, got in an accident and poked the condenser, it looked like I pummeled the hulk. Also you cannot go in demanding this or that part be replaced under warranty, you will get nowhere with that attitude in most dealerships. Take it back to the original dealership you purchased the vehicle from and nicely ask for some sort of compensation for the trouble you have gone through, you should be able to get something (tank of gas maybe?). If you go in there with an attitude and plan on using a lawsuit as a backup, you better be very well researched because I can GUARANTEE You 99% of the people reading this cannot afford a serious legal battle with Toyota because you will more than likely lose. If the problem is fixed a second time and occurs a third, then you will start getting some recognition from the factory, they will send out special technicians to the dealership to assess the situation. Basically, stuff happens, everything can't always be perfect, just give them a chance to fix it before you go apesh*t or it probably won't end up well for you, I have personally seen several customers asked not to return... ever.

Unfortunately since almost every dealership is a franchise, customers cannot be told to not return for warranty repairs. While the dealerships are entitled to tell the customer to not bring their vehicle in for paid repairs, as a Toyota (or other manufacturer) franchise, they are required by their franchise contract to work on any and all warranty complaints.

Though I do agree that polite talk is the best way to go.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:51 AM   #17
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***Update****

Thanks for all the responses. So I took it back to the dealer and spoke directly to the guy above the service manager(Owners son) and nicely explained my situation. He expressed concern and got me in asap. They gave me a loaner and ended up replacing the condenser coil and all the connecting tubing/fittings. It has been good ever since. However, I have experienced two other unrelated minor issues since. One with the driver door motor being extremely noisy(had to get that window re-tinted due to crappy first install and wonder if its from tint solution getting in there) and the "ABS" and traction ctrl symbol light up at random times. I need to get it in there but just need to find the time. Toyota did call me to inform me that as a good will from the dealer, they would be purchasing an 8 year 125 mile extended warranty. It has been 3 weeks and I still have not received anything but when I do I think that is generous on their part. Because of the effort on their part they will remain to get my business.

Good luck w/ your situation Joe, I would take everyones advice and give them a chance to fix it. I know it is a major pain in to have to deal with this sort of thing on a brand new vehicle but try to not let it bother you. Its not worth the stress--life is too short for that. At the end of the day(or week) your truck will be like new again and hopefully you get an extended warranty or something for your troubles!
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacopa View Post
Good luck w/ your situation Joe, I would take everyones advice and give them a chance to fix it. I know it is a major pain in to have to deal with this sort of thing on a brand new vehicle but try to not let it bother you. Its not worth the stress--life is too short for that. At the end of the day(or week) your truck will be like new again and hopefully you get an extended warranty or something for your troubles!
Thanks for the info. Glad they got the leak on your AC fixed, hope the other problems get resolved too.
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