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Old 01-03-2013, 11:05 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
Mostly gears... IMO

But certainly it's "too small" when you start throwing large tires and wheel spin at it, considering the weight and output of these trucks. Not that it's going to break but it's maybe a bit undersized for the job, considering it's basically the same rear end you have in V6 3.slow trucks with minimal weight and power.

The non-elocker rear end is marginally better due to the trussing but you still have an 8" ring gear.

I also wonder what kind of carrier bearing pre load these things are coming with from the factory... that could have a decent amount to do with why stock gear sets break.
I thought I had heard something about the housing being the weak point and flexing just enough to cause misalignment in the gears or something. Just hear say though, never looked into just got new gears after mine went out.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:08 AM   #42
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Thanks for the info... figure with the regear ill through solid spacer in there to eliminate the stupid crush washer....
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:12 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyT88 View Post
I thought I had heard something about the housing being the weak point and flexing just enough to cause misalignment in the gears or something. Just hear say though, never looked into just got new gears after mine went out.
Under high load the pinion wants to deflect making it easier to break teeth. The carrier also wants to twist. Basically everything is trying to twist and you don't want the pinion and ring gear to move their positions with eachother. That's why the trussed "8.4" is "better". Some diffs like 14bolt and 9" actually use a bearing on the nose of the pinion to keep it from deflecting. Carrier bearing pre load plays into this deflection as well...
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:13 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost848 View Post
Thanks for the info... figure with the regear ill through solid spacer in there to eliminate the stupid crush washer....
I absolutely would. Still won't help deflection though.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #45
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Well bringing this back from the dead, still havent done the deed yet, my rear diff has aquired some god awful noises. Knowing metal is getting chipped off, should i be replacing the rear wheel bearings as well?
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ghost848 View Post
Well bringing this back from the dead, still havent done the deed yet, my rear diff has aquired some god awful noises. Knowing metal is getting chipped off, should i be replacing the rear wheel bearings as well?
Pain the fucking ass. I haven't bothered with mine, nor have I had a reason to. That said, when I grenaded my rear end (both times) I got the shrapnel out under 100ft of driving later.

Any reason you've chosen to leave this broken rear end in the truck?
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:24 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Pain the fucking ass. I haven't bothered with mine, nor have I had a reason to. That said, when I grenaded my rear end (both times) I got the shrapnel out under 100ft of driving later.

Any reason you've chosen to leave this broken rear end in the truck?
$$$$ next month man it will all go away...
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:37 PM   #49
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Rear wheel bearings are sealed and run in grease not gear oil. If you had chunks or shavings that far they'd have to get through your oil seal and you would have a leak.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
Rear wheel bearings are sealed and run in grease not gear oil. If you had chunks or shavings that far they'd have to get through your oil seal and you would have a leak.
This. Without obvious signs of leakage or a bad bearing, why fuck with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost848 View Post
$$$$ next month man it will all go away...
Some hand tools and time and you can pull the ring gear out and not risk further issues. I'd recommend doing so, in fact. You don't want the rear diff to suddenly lock or break further and toast your rear driveshaft or trans output or something like that. Unlikely though it is, nothing's impossible.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 PM   #51
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Ehhh...

Are you saying pull the ring gear and put everything else back in and run it in 4hi? Daily driven?

I wouldn't, if that's what you're saying...

Just better not to drive it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
Ehhh...

Are you saying pull the ring gear and put everything else back in and run it in 4hi? Daily driven?

I wouldn't, if that's what you're saying...
I'm saying that's better than running around with an ass full of shrapnel.

Quote:
Just better not to drive it.
Agreed, this is best option.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #53
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Well lucky my shifter snapped the other day lol so cant drive it anyways lol
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #54
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Since the thread has been reopened VIA the OP, I will throw in my info:

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
Under high load the pinion wants to deflect making it easier to break teeth. The carrier also wants to twist. Basically everything is trying to twist and you don't want the pinion and ring gear to move their positions with eachother. That's why the trussed "8.4" is "better". Some diffs like 14bolt and 9" actually use a bearing on the nose of the pinion to keep it from deflecting. Carrier bearing pre load plays into this deflection as well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
I absolutely would. Still won't help deflection though.
Regardless of this rear diff being trussed, the front bearing is STILL under the load of the "twist" as the pinion gear applies the force to the ring gear. thus "deflection" as you have described will still be placed on the front pinion bearing and rear pinion bearing. That is why those two bearings are the largest in the rear diff housing.

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Originally Posted by Ghost848 View Post
Well lucky my shifter snapped the other day lol so cant drive it anyways lol
I would recommend against using shims instead of the crush sleeve. The crush sleeve is what helps set and maintain the pinion pre-load. Trying to get the correct shim thickness to maintain pre-load is near impossible. I know they are a pain in the butt to get set, but it is truly the best way to do it if you want it to last.

As for a parts list, Any time you have that kind of damage in the ring gear area, I suggest replacing the ring and pinion, both pinion bearings, the pinion seal, and both carrier side bearings. Also I recommend removing both of the axles and cleaning out the entire housing. Any small pieces of metal that are left behind can eventually get pulled in, and cause more damage later.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Since the thread has been reopened VIA the OP, I will throw in my info:





Regardless of this rear diff being trussed, the front bearing is STILL under the load of the "twist" as the pinion gear applies the force to the ring gear. thus "deflection" as you have described will still be placed on the front pinion bearing and rear pinion bearing. That is why those two bearings are the largest in the rear diff housing.



I would recommend against using shims instead of the crush sleeve. The crush sleeve is what helps set and maintain the pinion pre-load. Trying to get the correct shim thickness to maintain pre-load is near impossible. I know they are a pain in the butt to get set, but it is truly the best way to do it if you want it to last.

As for a parts list, Any time you have that kind of damage in the ring gear area, I suggest replacing the ring and pinion, both pinion bearings, the pinion seal, and both carrier side bearings. Also I recommend removing both of the axles and cleaning out the entire housing. Any small pieces of metal that are left behind can eventually get pulled in, and cause more damage later.
Like I said that's what helps to make the 9"/14 bolt so much stronger is they have the pinion nose cone bearings to decrease deflection. It's not all about the ring gear but the bracing helps with carrier deflection and probably pinion deflection too from the whole housing being torqued. Not really sure what you're saying though...

There is nothing wrong with using a solid spacer in place of the crush washer if properly set up. In fact it's preferable, that's why most of us who wheel have them. Getting the correct pre-load is not impossible at all. A crush sleeve doesn't "maintain" preload any more than a solid sleeve with shims either, the difference being the crush sleeve can crush more and then you lose your pinion bearing pre load.

I agree all bearings should probably be replaced.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:16 PM   #56
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Im going through ecgs for my 3rd with new bearings so that should cover it then.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #57
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im looking as well. Not cause mines broke, but cause im lugging big heavy tires around on stock gears. Robbing me of my powers yo!
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:28 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 View Post
Like I said that's what helps to make the 9"/14 bolt so much stronger is they have the pinion nose cone bearings to decrease deflection. It's not all about the ring gear but the bracing helps with carrier deflection and probably pinion deflection too from the whole housing being torqued. Not really sure what you're saying though...

There is nothing wrong with using a solid spacer in place of the crush washer if properly set up. In fact it's preferable, that's why most of us who wheel have them. Getting the correct pre-load is not impossible at all. A crush sleeve doesn't "maintain" preload any more than a solid sleeve with shims either, the difference being the crush sleeve can crush more and then you lose your pinion bearing pre load.

I agree all bearings should probably be replaced.
It seems we are both unsure of what the other is saying in some of this. I have yet to find a differential that has anything other than a tapered pinion bearing in them for strength. I am not going to say that shimming won't work, because I am sure that it would. I have been wheeling for over 20 years though, and have never had a problem with any truck due to a crush sleeve. Maybe my groups have just been lucky ones. It is something that I would be interested in finding out more.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:26 PM   #59
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Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.

Dual opposed tapered rollers standard and then the pinion support bearing.





As far as crush sleeve vs solid spacer

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...leeve-VS-shims
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...sh-sleeve.html
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...sh-sleeve.html


Another nice feature is changing out your pinion seal is a breeze. I don't think it's a huge deal but for $25 extra from ECGS it's a nice peace of mind.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:31 PM   #60
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I bought a 4runner rear e locker diff for $460. It came wih 4.30s. It was all assembled and would be a super easy swap. Keep an eye on CL and any junkyards within a few hundred miles. You can re gear the rear with a complete new diff and then just have the front done.
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