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Old 02-27-2013, 04:21 PM   #302
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Just got off the phone with my service rep. This is how the conversation went:

"Hey, Sam. This is Chris at Go Toyota. I just wanted to let you know that we got everything finished on the truck and you can come pick it up."
"Great! Did it fix the shudder?"
*Without missing a beat* "Nope."
"Hm."
"Yea. I mean, it reduced it and I didn't feel it every time I accelerated, but it's still there."
"I kinda figured. So what's the next step?"
"We just have to wait for Toyota. They've obviously acknowledged the problem so we just wait for next steps from them."
"So, just out of curiosity, do you guys escalate this to them to let them know it's not working?"
"Yes we do. And your truck certainly isn't the only one."

So now we wait and see if Toyota decides to stop wasting money on leaf springs, tranny mounts, steering stabilizers, and paying their techs for wasted time and just fixes the problem the right way the first time with a one piece drive shaft.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:08 PM   #303
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I hate to say this, but Toyota is chasing their ass with this. This a driveshaft issue, not loose mounts, springs.. etc. When Toyota went to the 2nd gen, they somehow managed to ditch the Double Cardon joint just aft of the carrier bearing and slapped on an extra 70 or so ft lbs of twist.
Now, there are pinion angle issues too but that is a slightly different vibe. The Double C absorbed the take off shudder by not relying on proper angles to eliminate and cancel out frequencies, but to spread the allowable angles that can be used. It also absorbed energy transferred to that joint, high torque + crap angles results in the shudder. Carrier bearing could use a redesign too.

I've spoken about this countless times to service reps and techs, most simply stair back looking empty, can't blame them there is nothing they can do, It's a Design problem.

Simply put, it's a little cheaper to build a Drive-shaft without the double C, times that by all those Tacoma sales = $$ savings.
I believe that Toyota thinks the vibes (which gets worse with the slightest lift) are within an acceptable range for now, and redesigning a drive-shaft now when this generation is on it's way out is not cost effective. .. ..

That is, in my eyes, totally unacceptable. I love my truck but there is nothing more aggravating than having a good truck that vibrated, when your buddy's 95 lifted Grand Cherokee drove very smooth... I've tried all things: Dealer visits, mount replacements, new drive-shafts (rebuilt and balanced twice), shims... etc ..etc... next is a DC joint form $Slee$
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #304
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Well, I just picked up my truck. The shudder is NO better, and if anything it's worse. Also, looking at the paperwork, the tech wrote that he did all three steps per the TSB and after the third (steering stablizer) the shudder is now gone. Bullshit.

I have to say, the tech's "I don't give a shit" attitude is pretty frustrating. His answer to me when I came and picked it up is "Well, we did everything we could." And then began to babble on about giving him a perfect score on his survey.

Should I take it back and say "Two things. 1. change my paperwork to say it has not gone away. 2. This is worse than before, put it all back to stock."?

Thoughts?
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:30 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grieby54 View Post
Well, I just picked up my truck. The shudder is NO better, and if anything it's worse. Also, looking at the paperwork, the tech wrote that he did all three steps per the TSB and after the third (steering stablizer) the shudder is now gone. Bullshit.

I have to say, the tech's "I don't give a shit" attitude is pretty frustrating. His answer to me when I came and picked it up is "Well, we did everything we could." And then began to babble on about giving him a perfect score on his survey.

Should I take it back and say "Two things. 1. change my paperwork to say it has not gone away. 2. This is worse than before, put it all back to stock."?

Thoughts?
do 1

the TSB parts (IIRC) are the same part numbers, only the
damper weight is new :EDIT: i guess some parts are redesigned

all that differs is the skill of putting it together

dealer needs to escalate this to corporate so toyota can
push their engineers for a fix and deploy a new TSB.

I can live with the vibe, and
drive in a fashion where the vibe never occurs...but if I drive 'spirited'
the vibe is definitely there and can be strong...

I hope my warranty lasts long enough so they can fix this
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #306
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Is the 1 piece drive shaft swap the answer? I'd be willing to spend the $ if it solves the problem.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:05 PM   #307
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Got my truck back today from the dealer. The dealer installed the new transmission mount which lowers the transmission and t-case about 3/4 of an inch, thus reducing the driveline angle. This cured about 90% of my take off shudder and is good enough for me.
They offered to install the springs but the new TSB springs have a softer rear portion, between the center pin and shackle, to "soak up" some of the axle wrap and not transfer as much to the driver/truck. The trans mount actually helps the issue, the springs and steering dampener just make it less obvious to the driver. Since I use my truck as a truck, I wasn't interested in getting softer springs so I took it as is.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:24 AM   #308
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Well, I called the service rep and asked him to change my paperwork. He was put out and said the tech wasn't feeling it after he did the TSB, but the service rep only felt it a little bit. I told him its worse. He said I'd have to drop it off again and have it driven to verify that it's still there. So, they're being difficult. Instead of the service rep just owning up to the fact that its still there and changing the paperwork, he's being a pain in the ass. I drop it off again a week from today. What a pain in the ass. This is a brand new vehicle!
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:38 AM   #309
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Well Toyota is there with my truck today measuring driveline angles and talking about shimming the carrier. They must read the forums! Ill report back once I get my truck back but it seems like they're at least on the right track with a fix and hopefully a different TSB.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by 2wheelnut View Post
Well Toyota is there with my truck today measuring driveline angles and talking about shimming the carrier. They must read the forums! Ill report back once I get my truck back but it seems like they're at least on the right track with a fix and hopefully a different TSB.
How did you get them to take it that seriously? Mine don't seem to give a shit about it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:10 PM   #311
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Picked my 2012 up tonight from the dealer, so far so good they changed the springs and installed the steering wheel damper. Had the wife with me so I took it easy but I did not feel the shudder I do need more drive time. The dealer said that three different techs plus him drove it, I will up date in a day or two I hope this is not to good to be true. side note they did not install tranny mount.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:56 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grieby54 View Post
Well, I called the service rep and asked him to change my paperwork. He was put out and said the tech wasn't feeling it after he did the TSB, but the service rep only felt it a little bit. I told him its worse. He said I'd have to drop it off again and have it driven to verify that it's still there. So, they're being difficult. Instead of the service rep just owning up to the fact that its still there and changing the paperwork, he's being a pain in the ass. I drop it off again a week from today. What a pain in the ass. This is a brand new vehicle!
That's exactly what my dealer did! then they blamed it on my AAL claiming it caused the vibe. Truth is I added the leaf only to better tow a small trailer without sagging.... and only after they refused to do the TSB citing that factory warranty ran out, and extended Toyota care warranty does not cover.. . I wanted to hurt the rep that day.. . but kept cool and tolled him I'll take care of it the right way...
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Grieby54 View Post
How did you get them to take it that seriously? Mine don't seem to give a shit about it.
They took it on themselves. They even replaced the prop shaft due to a "clunking" since the master mechanic heard it during his test drive. Dude was telling me he was on the phone with Toyota for 6 hours +. I guess they don't want a lemon law... I told them to take their time and keep it as long as they need to figure it out. Hopefully this helps out us folks that have it. I should hear back tomorrow. In the meantime my billies came in and are waiting to be married to the truck! I can't wait...
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:58 PM   #314
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Well, after more driving the shudder is certainly worse. I've decided that documenting that its still there is not going to be enough - I want them to fix this or at least make me feel like they really tried to. Also, my steering wheel isn't straight now! It's off by probably about 10*. This is so irritating. I think I'm going to call the service manager tomorrow and let him know what's going on and that I'll be dropping my truck off on Thursday and it had better run smooth when I pick it up.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:28 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grieby54 View Post
And then began to babble on about giving him a perfect score on his survey.
When I bought my truck, I agreed on a price with the sales manager before driving to dealership, the sales guy wouldn't honor the email (I printed it out). It took him roughly an hour to sort it out with the manager. I then said to the USAA car buying rep that they didn't bend me over THAT bad but I wasn't happy. Gave him bad markings on everything. Sales manager called the week after saying they had "let him go."
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:54 AM   #316
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When I bought my truck, I agreed on a price with the sales manager before driving to dealership, the sales guy wouldn't honor the email (I printed it out). It took him roughly an hour to sort it out with the manager. I then said to the USAA car buying rep that they didn't bend me over THAT bad but I wasn't happy. Gave him bad markings on everything. Sales manager called the week after saying they had "let him go."
If he wanted a perfect score on his survey he should have acted like he gave a shit that he didn't fix the shudder.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:34 AM   #317
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Called the service department again, my rep answered the phone. I told him that my steering wheel isn't straight, that my truck shakes worse, and that I'd like to have it put back. I can deal with a mild shudder, but the new shake is terrible.
His smart ass response was "You came in here and told us to do the TSB. We just did what you told us to do. We can't just 'change it back.' You can call Toyota directly and tell them that it's still shaking. They'll tell you just to come in on Thursday for your appointment, and we'll open up a case with Toyota. We'll make an appointment for you to do a ride along with the case manager that they send out once a month, and you'll go from there."
He was pretty much an ass the entire time. I have a feeling this is going to be a long, painful process...
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:53 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Grieby54 View Post
Called the service department again, my rep answered the phone. I told him that my steering wheel isn't straight, that my truck shakes worse, and that I'd like to have it put back. I can deal with a mild shudder, but the new shake is terrible.
His smart ass response was "You came in here and told us to do the TSB. We just did what you told us to do. We can't just 'change it back.' You can call Toyota directly and tell them that it's still shaking. They'll tell you just to come in on Thursday for your appointment, and we'll open up a case with Toyota. We'll make an appointment for you to do a ride along with the case manager that they send out once a month, and you'll go from there."
He was pretty much an ass the entire time. I have a feeling this is going to be a long, painful process...

This is pretty much my experience with Toyota in the past year, first they look a prob, then dismiss as normal and "there's nothing we can do for it". Bastards at corporate told me to do arbitration. Now awaiting my arbitration hearing, which is also pretty much rigged in Toyota's interest (they fund the arbitration firm). Meanwhile my 6 speed "isn't included in the TSB" which is likely based on Toyota calculations that it's more cost effective to ignore the 6 speed population than attempt to fix the vibes.

This $32K situation of suck makes my blood boil... especially because we know how to fix the problems.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:51 PM   #320
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Picked my 2012 up tonight from the dealer, so far so good they changed the springs and installed the steering wheel damper. Had the wife with me so I took it easy but I did not feel the shudder I do need more drive time. The dealer said that three different techs plus him drove it, I will up date in a day or two I hope this is not to good to be true. side note they did not install tranny mount.
Follow up three days later, problem solved, thank God. Thanks to Turnersville Toyota.
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