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It seems the TRD Sport is better......

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Old 12-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Thats incorrect. 2005-2008 Tacomas had two Limited Slip Differentials available from dealer, neither was Torsen like.
a. limited Slipp for factory TRD sport and Double Cab Long Bad was Hino 8 Inch Limited Slipp. It was manufactured in Hino factory in Japan and it is most heavy duty limited slip installed by Hino/Toyota. it has 8 clutch packs 4 on right axle and 4 on left axle.
b. TRD limited slipp made by Eaton, installed per request as Add ON. With 3 clutch packs installed centrally.

Hino limited slip is pretty much unbreakable, all it needs fresh oil every 12 000 miles to work and it hates Synthetic oils. That is the only problem with it.
Benefit: Unlike any other limited Slip differential it works with one tire in the air (like a locker). With 4 pinions its stronger then most lockers, its Auto so its always On, and allows speed difference between the wheels. Its made to power slower rotating wheel, instead of usual (slow the faster wheel) kind of what Lockright does.
Unfortunately Toyota decided to never sell this in North America which is stupid.

Proof that what I have been reading is wrong. Got to love the internet. So the Hino is a non US unit. The Eaton is a clutch plate style LSD and came in the first few years of the second generation US trucks.

Apologies for the bad info.

So dare I ask, of the TRUTRAK TORSEN style or the Detroit Locker non Torsen style, is one better than the other and why?

PK
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK View Post
Proof that what I have been reading is wrong. Got to love the internet. So the Hino is a non US unit. The Eaton is a clutch plate style LSD and came in the first few years of the second generation US trucks.

Apologies for the bad info.

So dare I ask, of the TRUTRAK TORSEN style or the Detroit Locker non Torsen style, is one better than the other and why?

PK
Hino came with every 2005 - 2008 TRD Sport and DCLB truck. (my truck has Hino also I got spare Hino from Larry's TRD Sport)
People got Eaton limited slipp when they requested Limited Slip as option from TRD parts catalog.
IMHO
Truetrac and Detroit are two different system.
Truetrac is limited slip, capable of shifting power between left and right axle.
Also it's bias based, that means slipping wheel has to have some traction for non slipping wheel to have power. Negative of that design is that, if one wheel is in the air, with Truetrac, truck is going nowhere. This is what all those videos showing how locker is better then limited slip are based on.
However, if you into more speed driving, or your truck is daily driver you most likely will be happier with Truetrac. For heavy offroading Truetrac itself is not the best option.
That is where Detroit locker comes. It's heavy duty and it will power both axles at the same time no matter what. Great for rock crawling offroading. However, if you daily drive truck it will feel like somebody is crashing to the rear of the truck very time you take a turn. And parking is odd experience.

That's where ATRAC/TRAC comes in play. In old days when you got one wheel in air with Truetrac, you would slightly tap brakes and that would help Truetrac to shift power, on newer trucks ATRAC/TRAC system will do this for you and only apply brakes to wheel in the air. ( perfect!)
Added benefit should be that Truetrac will smoth out wave like power patter on traction control which is what makes traction control useless in super slick conditions. (sorry David K. But it's true)

So if I had 2009+ Tacoma with Traction control I will look into installing Truetrac before any lockers. Especially if truck is dual purpose (daily driver + ocasional offroad).
For offroad only vehicle I would go with Detroit.

On side note: Ford raptor comes with Torsen , and Another company (wavetrac) made version of gear limited slip but improved:
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f5/ne...ont-end-11892/

I hope that helps.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Hino came with every 2005 - 2008 TRD Sport and DCLB truck. (my truck has Hino also I got spare Hino from Larry's TRD Sport)
People got Eaton limited slipp when they requested Limited Slip as option from TRD parts catalog.
IMHO
Truetrac and Detroit are two different system.
Truetrac is limited slip, capable of shifting power between left and right axle.
Also it's bias based, that means slipping wheel has to have some traction for non slipping wheel to have power. Negative of that design is that, if one wheel is in the air, with Truetrac, truck is going nowhere. This is what all those videos showing how locker is better then limited slip are based on.
However, if you into more speed driving, or your truck is daily driver you most likely will be happier with Truetrac. For heavy offroading Truetrac itself is not the best option.
That is where Detroit locker comes. It's heavy duty and it will power both axles at the same time no matter what. Great for rock crawling offroading. However, if you daily drive truck it will feel like somebody is crashing to the rear of the truck very time you take a turn. And parking is odd experience.

That's where ATRAC/TRAC comes in play. In old days when you got one wheel in air with Truetrac, you would slightly tap brakes and that would help Truetrac to shift power, on newer trucks ATRAC/TRAC system will do this for you and only apply brakes to wheel in the air. ( perfect!)
Added benefit should be that Truetrac will smoth out wave like power patter on traction control which is what makes traction control useless in super slick conditions. (sorry David K. But it's true)

So if I had 2009+ Tacoma with Traction control I will look into installing Truetrac before any lockers. Especially if truck is dual purpose (daily driver + ocasional offroad).
For offroad only vehicle I would go with Detroit.

On side note: Ford raptor comes with Torsen , and Another company (wavetrac) made version of gear limited slip but improved:
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f5/ne...ont-end-11892/

I hope that helps.

That actually clarifies a lot of posted mis-information. So then, to keep this moving forward. Can you break down which year / model trucks have which rear ends. Explaining, the which have 8.4 and which have 8.0, do all 4x4 have 8.0, all 4x2 have 8.4. This may save someone from buying an LSD for converting and getting the wrong one.

FWIW, I was trying to decide if I make an upgrade which LSD to go with. Your explanation of the ALSD and trutrac confirmed my thoughts.

PK
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK View Post
That actually clarifies a lot of posted mis-information. So then, to keep this moving forward. Can you break down which year / model trucks have which rear ends. Explaining, the which have 8.4 and which have 8.0, do all 4x4 have 8.0, all 4x2 have 8.4. This may save someone from buying an LSD for converting and getting the wrong one.

FWIW, I was trying to decide if I make an upgrade which LSD to go with. Your explanation of the ALSD and trutrac confirmed my thoughts.

PK
Best website that explains Toyota differentials is
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

IMHO: newer SR5 or TRD Sport with Truetrac is much better all around deal then Offroad.
Price difference covers the Truetrac install and removes worry about exploding rear end.
So you will keep up with TRD Offroad that has e-locker, and will be there in case TRD OR needs tow with broken rear diff
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:16 AM   #25
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BlueT, thanks for all of the background information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
That is where Detroit locker comes. It's heavy duty and it will power both axles at the same time no matter what. Great for rock crawling offroading. However, if you daily drive truck it will feel like somebody is crashing to the rear of the truck very time you take a turn. And parking is odd experience.
I've also read that driving on road in snow & ice with an auto locker (not an LSD) can be dangerous, since it locks/unlocks whenever it wants, jerking the rear end around. I've never driven with one, but if that's the case, I definitely wouldn't want it in my daily driver.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:24 AM   #26
Well, let's play chess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudFlap View Post
I have been thinking and that alone is new for me but...... am I wrong in thinking that the Sport is generally better in most low traction situations? The reason is think so is cause witb my OR 4x4 when I go 4H it still has Trac AND ALSD, wich has a big time fun killing engine managment included and in order to turn LSD off I have to push and hold the button to turn EVERYTHING off including Trac. So In the end im left with open diff in the rear.

Now along that same line of thinking. If I had a Sport and switched to 4H, and turned off everything I would still have the mechanical LSD in the rear and up front would be the same as an OR truck.

Now, I know with my OR package I have the locker and ATrac too..... but when is 4 low ever really useful for the typical low traction spots like snow, ice, mud ect....

It just seems the 4x4 Sport is more useful in day to day type low traction areas where as an Off Road may have extra gadgets to get ya out of a tight spot but how often are you actually that bad off to NEED it?

I typed this out on my phone so give me a break on spelling and the paragraphs.. lol
This is January 1st.
You're supposed to save things like this for April 1st.

As needlessly confusing as they may be to operate, I think the OR offers the best mix of traction aids of any of the currently shipping Tacoma configurations. It sounds like the 4H locker mod is for you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:26 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Best website that explains Toyota differentials is
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

IMHO: newer SR5 or TRD Sport with Truetrac is much better all around deal then Offroad.
Price difference covers the Truetrac install and removes worry about exploding rear end.
So you will keep up with TRD Offroad that has e-locker, and will be there in case TRD OR needs tow with broken rear diff

That is a good link. Honestly, I had visited it prior to some of these posts. Overall, pretty good, but still there is some confusing information. examples, like the 8.4 gears measure 8.0, there are early style diffs with small bearings and later diffs with large bearings, and compounding things, the 2013 Detroit catalog ends it's listing for the gen 1 trucks, yet people have installed locker and truetracs into gen 2 diffs.

The other link is on Pirate 4x4. There is some good info there also, just not a lot in regards to newer Tacomas. The guy on Pirate also is always using a claw hammer to accomplish his work. Smart for info, but I question his primitive Pete methods. He may be great, just concerned about the photos.

I need to take a run by the dealer and look "inside" the diff on the parts catalog. I'm guessing my diff is an open type with brace 8.4". (2010 TRD Sport 4x2 DCLB).

Downside of swapping in a truetrac myself is this style does not use adjuster for side preload / backlash, meaning it may need shims or not. Just a pain with no shims on hand.

PK
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
BlueT, thanks for all of the background information.


I've also read that driving on road in snow & ice with an auto locker (not an LSD) can be dangerous, since it locks/unlocks whenever it wants, jerking the rear end around. I've never driven with one, but if that's the case, I definitely wouldn't want it in my daily driver.

You are correct. I had a lunchbox locker in the rear diff on my 01 Jeep XJ. I had 4.56:1 gears with non-siped 32" BFG MTs. On wet roads, it liked to slip and slide a little. On snow and ice, it wanted to go down the road sideways. On dry pavement, well, you knew it was there. LOL.

It was a true joy offroad.

After that experience trying to build up the XJ platform, I just sold it to someone who appreciated it and got a Taco.

My brother has the Rubicon with the air lockers. That thing is nice, assuming you need to be locked up and don't mind the smaller vehicle.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK View Post
That is a good link. Honestly, I had visited it prior to some of these posts. Overall, pretty good, but still there is some confusing information. examples, like the 8.4 gears measure 8.0, there are early style diffs with small bearings and later diffs with large bearings, and compounding things, the 2013 Detroit catalog ends it's listing for the gen 1 trucks, yet people have installed locker and truetracs into gen 2 diffs.

The other link is on Pirate 4x4. There is some good info there also, just not a lot in regards to newer Tacomas. The guy on Pirate also is always using a claw hammer to accomplish his work. Smart for info, but I question his primitive Pete methods. He may be great, just concerned about the photos.

I need to take a run by the dealer and look "inside" the diff on the parts catalog. I'm guessing my diff is an open type with brace 8.4". (2010 TRD Sport 4x2 DCLB).

Downside of swapping in a truetrac myself is this style does not use adjuster for side preload / backlash, meaning it may need shims or not. Just a pain with no shims on hand.

PK
For getting feel on limited slip install take a look over here.
http://www.gearinstalls.com/
ZUK has been doing this for long, long, looooooong time
You can see tools he uses, what goes in and out of these differentials, checks and balances.
Now if I were you I would buy spare diff on junkyard and send both truetrac and spare diff to ZUK. have him installed and ship it back.
All you will have to do is swap diffs, and keep your original for spare.

Installing Limited slip is not rocket science but requires tools and a lot of patience. If you dont feel fully comfortable you are better off outsourcing it.
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