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Old 01-06-2013, 11:24 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Ah , my apologies .

So you are not agreeing with his " ABS stops me faster on snow " statement , only that in his opinion his ABS works as it should even though we both know that ABS doesn't work that way
I used his post to highlight the fact that the opinions are all over the map with respect to if it is too sensitive or not.

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with the fuckin snow and ice except in the rare times when we get 2 or 3 inches...
 
Old 01-07-2013, 01:32 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
That doesn't seem to be the case from my experience but would be nice if it was



Maybe we should have a competition. Who thinks they can stop faster on this with or without ABS? Let's say from 15 MPH right where the car is in the background.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:12 AM   #303
Ain't nobody got time for dat!
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I don't like our ABS in the snow/ice. I have had a few occasions where it was slushy wet snow, and if my ABS didn't kick in like it did, I would of stopped a few feet shorter every time, it wasn't that slick.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 06:52 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
http://youtu.be/OZjghn_Ovbk

There's no conclusive way to determine exactly what happened based on a few seconds of video. Traction control and ABS may have played a role, or not. The role those systems may have played could've been positive, negative, or both.
Thats why proving that traction control had put you in the ditch is almost impossible. With out detailed log from vehicle and multiple camera's. But if you break down second by second video. You can kind of figure out what is going on. This video is probably the best proof that Traction control is dangerous in winter driving.

0:16 - all normal except guy moves to left and front left tire drives o nthe snow patch, that starts putting drag on left front tire trying to spin truck to the left.

0:17 - guy ends up with both left tires on snow, at the same time truck is starting to climb. So now front left is generating drag, truck is climbing and rear left tire on the snow starts losing traction. (been there done that). Once rear tire spins, traction control cuts power, and applys brake to left rear.

0:18 - power cut (for 5 seconds at least) + left tire braking send surge to right tire which loses traction, so now both rear tires have no traction. Since left tire is dragging on the snow, rear end swings to the left, guy tries to turn to right to get off the snow, Bad move!

0:19 - traction control kicks in and does what was design to do. Make truck go where wheels pointing to. So right side brakes gets applied and truck swerves into the right, slamming into the box truck

0:20 - both box truck and Nissan are swinging their tails

0:21 - Nissan driver turns wheel to the left to get away from box truck. Bad move again. traction control hammers the brakes on left side which now catches snow. Sending Nissan sideways.

0:22 - Nissan driver counters to the right but at this point Nissan is going sideways and still there is no power to the wheels No way to avoid 18 wheeler.

0:23 - boom. In the meantime box truck with no traction control recovers from slide and goes on its merry way.

Nissan driver did everything right, what he did not anticipated was traction control.
If he knew Traction control is junk, he would have kept steering wheel to the right and allow traction control to ditch him.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 07:20 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Thats why proving that traction control had put you in the ditch is almost impossible. With out detailed log from vehicle and multiple camera's. But if you break down second by second video. You can kind of figure out what is going on. This video is probably the best proof that Traction control is dangerous in winter driving.

0:16 - all normal except guy moves to left and front left tire drives o nthe snow patch, that starts putting drag on left front tire trying to spin truck to the left.

0:17 - guy ends up with both left tires on snow, at the same time truck is starting to climb. So now front left is generating drag, truck is climbing and rear left tire on the snow starts losing traction. (been there done that). Once rear tire spins, traction control cuts power, and applys brake to left rear.

0:18 - power cut (for 5 seconds at least) + left tire braking send surge to right tire which loses traction, so now both rear tires have no traction. Since left tire is dragging on the snow, rear end swings to the left, guy tries to turn to right to get off the snow, Bad move!

0:19 - traction control kicks in and does what was design to do. Make truck go where wheels pointing to. So right side brakes gets applied and truck swerves into the right, slamming into the box truck

0:20 - both box truck and Nissan are swinging their tails

0:21 - Nissan driver turns wheel to the left to get away from box truck. Bad move again. traction control hammers the brakes on left side which now catches snow. Sending Nissan sideways.

0:22 - Nissan driver counters to the right but at this point Nissan is going sideways and still there is no power to the wheels No way to avoid 18 wheeler.

0:23 - boom. In the meantime box truck with no traction control recovers from slide and goes on its merry way.

Nissan driver did everything right, what he did not anticipated was traction control.
If he knew Traction control is junk, he would have kept steering wheel to the right and allow traction control to ditch him.
Holding the steering wheel do the right would have done nothing you dunce , that's where the box van was .

There is no way you can prove or disprove what part traction control did or did not have in this accident .
 
Old 01-07-2013, 08:07 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Holding the steering wheel do the right would have done nothing you dunce , that's where the box van was .

There is no way you can prove or disprove what part traction control did or did not have in this accident .
Holding wheel to the right would keep truck from going to opposing line. Either it would have hang on to box truck or more likely finally go behind box truck to the ditch. Either way it would have been better then head on collision.
Just because there is no easy way to prove something it does not mean it is not true.
Nissan's use pretty much the same traction system and if you visit their forums they complain about the same things.
If his truck had no traction system, right at the beginning when his left rear tire slipped he would have simply slowed down. (one tire fire). Traction control turn that into crash.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 08:15 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Holding wheel to the right would keep truck from going to opposing line. Either it would have hang on to box truck or more likely finally go behind box truck to the ditch. Either way it would have been better then head on collision.
Just because there is no easy way to prove something it does not mean it is not true.
Nissan's use pretty much the same traction system and if you visit their forums they complain about the same things.
If his truck had no traction system, right at the beginning when his left rear tire slipped he would have simply slowed down. (one tire fire). Traction control turn that into crash.
Slow down ?

If the driver's side drive tire lost traction and the passenger side drive tire had traction , the Nissan would have veered left , just as it does in the video

beyond that point there is no way to know what caused what to happen .

How do you not know that the driver didn't panic and over correct to the right ?

Once they contacted the cube van , they were all just passengers
 
Old 01-07-2013, 08:23 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Holding wheel to the right would keep truck from going to opposing line. Either it would have hang on to box truck or more likely finally go behind box truck to the ditch. Either way it would have been better then head on collision.
Just because there is no easy way to prove something it does not mean it is not true.
Nissan's use pretty much the same traction system and if you visit their forums they complain about the same things.
If his truck had no traction system, right at the beginning when his left rear tire slipped he would have simply slowed down. (one tire fire). Traction control turn that into crash.
Unless you were in the truck with him I don't see how you can say or know anything about what happened. Actually, even if you were in the truck unless you were driving I'm still not sure you'd know what happened.

Do you honestly think that a car manufacturer would put a system in a vehicle if it made that vehicle LESS safe for a majority of the conditions? ABS and/or traction control won't help everytime everywhere but for most conditions it is better than not having it. You have to realize that sometimes the conditions are so bad that nothing will help no matter what, it all comes down to the traction available. That's why you see videos of people sliding sideways down a hill coated in ice, nothing other than studded tires or chains would help in that situation.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 08:35 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
If his truck had no traction system, right at the beginning when his left rear tire slipped he would have simply slowed down. (one tire fire). Traction control turn that into crash.
Respectfully disagree. I had a 2000 Ford Focus with only ABS braking. A couple times I hit snow/slush with one side of the car (2 left wheels or 2 right wheels) - both times the drag caused that car to do a complete 180 in the direction of the drag in the middle of the road.

Through my own stupid, aggressive driving the Toyota traction control has saved my arse in my Tacoma. However, Toyota ABS braking put my life in danger - it simply reduces ALL braking. In every other ABS vehicle I have owned the ABS reduces breaking only on the wheel(s) slipping.

All must remember our trucks are heavy vehicles. We can take off great in the snow but stopping is alot harder than a smaller, lighter vehicle would be. Couple that with a questionable ABS system and you need to be prepared in the slick stuff way in advance for expected or emergency stops.

Final note: I have buddies with Chevy/GMC trucks and they have the same issues and successes mentioned.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 10:29 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by 12TRDTacoma View Post
Highly HIGHLY agreed. There are too many hotshot drivers out there nowadays who seem to think that they can do anything, anywhere with anyone and they will be invincible. Those kind of people need to watch this kind of video to get a rude awakening before something happens to them and others around them.
Stupidity tends to eliminate its self. No need to keep the gene pool tainted with idiocy.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 10:34 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Thats why proving that traction control had put you in the ditch is almost impossible. With out detailed log from vehicle and multiple camera's. But if you break down second by second video. You can kind of figure out what is going on. This video is probably the best proof that Traction control is dangerous in winter driving.

0:16 - all normal except guy moves to left and front left tire drives o nthe snow patch, that starts putting drag on left front tire trying to spin truck to the left.

0:17 - guy ends up with both left tires on snow, at the same time truck is starting to climb. So now front left is generating drag, truck is climbing and rear left tire on the snow starts losing traction. (been there done that). Once rear tire spins, traction control cuts power, and applys brake to left rear.

0:18 - power cut (for 5 seconds at least) + left tire braking send surge to right tire which loses traction, so now both rear tires have no traction. Since left tire is dragging on the snow, rear end swings to the left, guy tries to turn to right to get off the snow, Bad move!

0:19 - traction control kicks in and does what was design to do. Make truck go where wheels pointing to. So right side brakes gets applied and truck swerves into the right, slamming into the box truck

0:20 - both box truck and Nissan are swinging their tails

0:21 - Nissan driver turns wheel to the left to get away from box truck. Bad move again. traction control hammers the brakes on left side which now catches snow. Sending Nissan sideways.

0:22 - Nissan driver counters to the right but at this point Nissan is going sideways and still there is no power to the wheels No way to avoid 18 wheeler.

0:23 - boom. In the meantime box truck with no traction control recovers from slide and goes on its merry way.

Nissan driver did everything right, what he did not anticipated was traction control.
If he knew Traction control is junk, he would have kept steering wheel to the right and allow traction control to ditch him.

And what if the driver was getting road head and blew his wad right at that point? Then nothing you said means anything.

Or they could have had a stroke?
 
Old 01-07-2013, 10:36 AM   #312
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Oz-T
Open diff - try it, put your truck on ice in 2wd mode. Turn traction controls off and give it gas. one wheel will spin other will give you no power. You will have traction on other wheel but no power to move truck and defintely not enough power to rotate truck.
Very first swing is rear going to the left and truck plowing to the right. It did that with left side on snow. The only thing does that with so much force is traction control which will brake one side of the vehicle.

kingston73
Car companies put things that works for most common driving. Snow and Ice is not common. And its the only condition that can fool traction system. look at our Forum and find people who had weird accidents.
Look at Nissan forum and look at their complains. They have the same weird spin outs, the same "My power was cut when slipped, I got left high and dry on middle of the road"
Traction control seems to work wonders but not in winter conditions. So 90% of the time you good, but 10% is when gets flat out dangerous.

kenobe
Totally Understand. And what you saying is possibility except, if that was the case, he would have spin to around the left front tire, right at the beginning when he went on slush snow. The fact is he went opposite.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 10:40 AM   #314
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Stupidity tends to eliminate its self. No need to keep the gene pool tainted with idiocy.
Haha. Yet again agreed. It appears that idiocy is all around us though my friend.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 10:48 AM   #315
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Someone lock this fucking thread already
 
Old 01-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #316
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Someone lock this fucking thread already
Yep, no need to go on. In my experience, most of the time people just need to slow down or in cases where they were slow and still slipping, they should have snow/better tires or chains/cable. Don't chance it.
 
Old 01-07-2013, 11:35 AM   #317
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Someone lock this fucking thread already


Or at least change the title to 'Official bitch about ABS and ABS "laws" thread'
 
Old 01-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by DriverSound View Post
Yep, no need to go on. In my experience, most of the time people just need to slow down or in cases where they were slow and still slipping, they should have snow/better tires or chains/cable. Don't chance it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman614 View Post


Or at least change the title to 'Official bitch about ABS and ABS "laws" thread'

welp I reported my post so we shall see if the powazzzz see it the same as us.
 
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