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Cold Air Intake - no haters please

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Old 02-13-2013, 09:02 AM   #1
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Cold Air Intake - no haters please

I've spent days reading through all the "intake" threads I could find so to start with, please don't respond by telling me not to get one, they destroy your engine, search the forum etc. Like I said, I've read through pages of threads but still have questions that I haven't found answers to.

For those of you who have actually installed one and used one, I have a few questions.

1. is the MAF calibration unit absolutely required for the 4.0?

2. have any of you found it decreased mpg's at all?

3. have any of you used more than 1 type? If so, did you like one over another and why?
4. anything else I should know before I get one?
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingston73 View Post
I've spent days reading through all the "intake" threads I could find so to start with, please don't respond by telling me not to get one, they destroy your engine, search the forum etc. Like I said, I've read through pages of threads but still have questions that I haven't found answers to.

For those of you who have actually installed one and used one, I have a few questions.

1. is the MAF calibration unit absolutely required for the 4.0?

2. have any of you found it decreased mpg's at all?

3. have any of you used more than 1 type? If so, did you like one over another and why?
4. anything else I should know before I get one?
If anyone here bashes on you report it.

Q#1: No, but, because CAI's change the way the airflows past the MAF sensor, it confuses the ECU into thinking there is more air going into the engine then there actually is. The MAF Calibrator intercepts the data from the MAF and changes it, thus 'correcting' it before it goes into the ECU.

Q#2: Most definitely YES! Before I found this forum I was sold a bill of goods that my K&N 63 will improve power and increase MPG. The power gain was minimal and my MPG's went down by 2-3 MPG's. After discussing the problem with Gadget at URD, I purchased and installed the Calibrator which was mapped specifically for my K&N 63. The difference was immediate. The erroneous data from the MAF was causing the ECU to dump more fuel into the engine than it needed, hence it was running rich and wasting fuel. This also meant the truck was 'bogging down' under acceleration unless it was under wide open throttle. The Calibrator largely returned my MPG's pretty much back to where it was before.

Bottom line, had I known all these things before hand, honestly, i don't think it was worth the hassle. To purchase the intake and then find out that you have a whole new set of issues is annoying. But in reality it is to be expected because you are altering the airflow dynamics of these computer designed engines and you end up with unforeseen issues. Yes, my truck is faster, it accelerates quicker and pulls harder than stock. It was just a PITA to get there.

My understanding it the only intake that does add a 'substantial' amount of power is the URD CAI. This is the one which requires cutting a hole in the radiator frame to mount the intake in front of the radiator.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
kingston73 [OP] kingston73 is offline
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Thanks, that is one of the most useful posts on this subject I've read, appreciate the help.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingston73 View Post
I've spent days reading through all the "intake" threads I could find so to start with, please don't respond by telling me not to get one, they destroy your engine, search the forum etc. Like I said, I've read through pages of threads but still have questions that I haven't found answers to.

For those of you who have actually installed one and used one, I have a few questions.

1. is the MAF calibration unit absolutely required for the 4.0?

2. have any of you found it decreased mpg's at all?

3. have any of you used more than 1 type? If so, did you like one over another and why?
4. anything else I should know before I get one?
1. Not required but does give a nice little "open loop" kick. Yes, I have one.

2. I've had an aFe drop-in, a Volant scoop tied into the stock airbox, an aFe Stage II SI, and a URD CAI, none of these affected mpgs any further then an assessment of right foot activities could account for.

3. See 2 above for list. The dropin and the Volant setup just seemed like stock to me, no difference. The aFe had a nice tone to it at 3500 and above, but also had an irritating (to me...) noise at about 1500-2000 rpm, which is where most of my daily driving occurs, so I sold it. I have the URD CAI and the MAF Cali now, and they will stay as I like them.

4. For daily driving I never noticed anything, 'cept noise, until I had the URD/MAF on at the same time. You get a little kick at about 3k and up that is different then stock or aFe alone. I ran some 1/4 numbers off of my G-tech for stock, aFe and URD (no MAF) and noted about a tenth better time for the aFe and the URD. I have not run any numbers with the URD+MAF combo yet.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingston73 View Post
Thanks, that is one of the most useful posts on this subject I've read, appreciate the help.
You're welcome, oh BTW, the Calibrator install requires that you solder 7 wires to the harness that goes into the ECU. Here's the trick, A: There are literally dozens of wires that feed into the ECU's five harnesses, it's a tight squeeze to find those wires and make absolutely sure you are working with the right ones. You will get a schematic with the unit. I checked all the wires three times before i started work. I did not want to screw this up. There is a plug n play harness that can be bought from URD but they are not cheap. B: 6 of those leads require a "Piggy back" solder, meaning you cannot cut the wires that you need to solder on to. Cutting the wires would alter the voltages and probably start throwing engine codes. It's one of those take your time, don't be distracted and make good and sure all the solders are good and heat shrink wrapped to avoid grounding.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurkin View Post
1. Not required but does give a nice little "open loop" kick. Yes, I have one.

2. I've had an aFe drop-in, a Volant scoop tied into the stock airbox, an aFe Stage II SI, and a URD CAI, none of these affected mpgs any further then an assessment of right foot activities could account for.

3. See 2 above for list. The dropin and the Volant setup just seemed like stock to me, no difference. The aFe had a nice tone to it at 3500 and above, but also had an irritating (to me...) noise at about 1500-2000 rpm, which is where most of my daily driving occurs, so I sold it. I have the URD CAI and the MAF Cali now, and they will stay as I like them.

4. For daily driving I never noticed anything, 'cept noise, until I had the URD/MAF on at the same time. You get a little kick at about 3k and up that is different then stock or aFe alone. I ran some 1/4 numbers off of my G-tech for stock, aFe and URD (no MAF) and noted about a tenth better time for the aFe and the URD. I have not run any numbers with the URD+MAF combo yet.
After all I have read and seen on these forums, it does sound like the URD combo is the best one out there for these engines.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #7
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any of you guys ran the aem bruteforce? just wondering if it makes a difference in mpgs and power. and with every CAI is it recomended to instal the MAF calibrator?
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamtoz View Post
any of you guys ran the aem bruteforce? just wondering if it makes a difference in mpgs and power. and with every cai is it recomended to instal the MAF calibrator?
I don't know anything about that one. But as far as recommended with the MAF? Depends on who you ask, there are folks that are not sold on it. But IMO, it seems to me that the guys at URD seem to have a very good understanding of what actually adds more to these trucks than just a lot of BRAAAAP.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acdronin View Post
You're welcome, oh BTW, the Calibrator install requires that you solder 7 wires to the harness that goes into the ECU. Here's the trick, A: There are literally dozens of wires that feed into the ECU's five harnesses, it's a tight squeeze to find those wires and make absolutely sure you are working with the right ones. You will get a schematic with the unit. I checked all the wires three times before i started work. I did not want to screw this up. There is a plug n play harness that can be bought from URD but they are not cheap. B: 6 of those leads require a "Piggy back" solder, meaning you cannot cut the wires that you need to solder on to. Cutting the wires would alter the voltages and probably start throwing engine codes. It's one of those take your time, don't be distracted and make good and sure all the solders are good and heat shrink wrapped to avoid grounding.
they do have plug and play harnesses for certain years, but they are more expensive than the MAF cal units now.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jhodge83 View Post
they do have plug and play harnesses for certain years, but they are more expensive than the MAF cal units now.
Yeah, but from what Gadget says, they are a PITA to build which is why they are so expensive.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acdronin View Post
I don't know anything about that one. But as far as recommended with the MAF? Depends on who you ask, there are folks that are not sold on it. But IMO, it seems to me that the guys at URD seem to have a very good understanding of what actually adds more to these trucks than just a lot of BRAAAAP.
ok thanks
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #12
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One thing to realize about those MAF calibrators is it may not give you any benefit depending on how you drive. If you are a commuter, your truck will likely very rarely see open loop operation and, if so, for very short amounts of time. The MAF only makes adjustments in open loop mode. So for those of you looking for a CAI for MPG purposes, if you drive conservatively (like you should if you're trying to eek out good MPG numbers), then I really don't see the benefit of the MAF calibrator unless it's to correct the error codes that are common to certain CAIs.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:29 PM   #13
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Gadget has responded before and stated the maf cal does effect closed loop also....im not sure how much, but he def stated it is not only open loop dependent. It caught me by surprise also, and I have to try and remember that.
Im on my phone, but ill try and link his quote when im on my pc later.

Fwiw, I also had the afe stage 2 Si.....hated it past 3k rpm due to the resonating nature of it and the intrusive racket into the cabin....I damn near gave it away.

Much happier with the urd and urd maf cal.....im not gunna make claims because I have not been on a dyno. I can say it is not intrusive, even at wot. Its got a mean growl inside, but its not nearly annoying or as loud inside. Outside tho, people def turn their heads.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
Gadget has responded before and stated the maf cal does effect closed loop also....im not sure how much, but he def stated it is not only open loop dependent. It caught me by surprise also, and I have to try and remember that.
Im on my phone, but ill try and link his quote when im on my pc later.

Fwiw, I also had the afe stage 2 Si.....hated it past 3k rpm due to the resonating nature of it and the intrusive racket into the cabin....I damn near gave it away.

Much happier with the urd and urd maf cal.....im not gunna make claims because I have not been on a dyno. I can say it is not intrusive, even at wot. Its got a mean growl inside, but its not nearly annoying or as loud inside. Outside tho, people def turn their heads.
Hmmm.... good to know
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
Gadget has responded before and stated the maf cal does effect closed loop also....im not sure how much, but he def stated it is not only open loop dependent. It caught me by surprise also, and I have to try and remember that.
Im on my phone, but ill try and link his quote when im on my pc later.

Fwiw, I also had the afe stage 2 Si.....hated it past 3k rpm due to the resonating nature of it and the intrusive racket into the cabin....I damn near gave it away.

Much happier with the urd and urd maf cal.....im not gunna make claims because I have not been on a dyno. I can say it is not intrusive, even at wot. Its got a mean growl inside, but its not nearly annoying or as loud inside. Outside tho, people def turn their heads.
That's what I thought too, it does have an effect throughout the range.

I love flooring it in tunnels (only briefly of course and not exceeding the posted speed limits ). A couple of months ago there was a Harley with loud pipes in the lane next to me in one of the local tunnels, his shit was loud, I hit the pedal and he turned and looked at me.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:39 PM   #16
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here ya guys go...........from Gman himself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget@URD View Post
There is a lot of tuning the URD MAF Calibrator in closed loop mode. You cannot alter the fuel mixture in closed loop mode with it, but you can do a lot of tuning there. We have other products that are used for altering fuel mixture in closed loop.

There are a lot of intake systems on the market that are not very well designed and cause a lot of significant induced MAF sensor error. For example on the 5vz the K&N Series 63 will cause the engine to run very lean and cause a significant positive fuel trim deviation. The Volant for the 1GR Tacoma makes the engine run very rich and causes a significant negative fuel trim deviation in closed loop from the ECU trying to compensate for it. The there is the new TRD for the 1GR Tacoma that make the engine run lean and a significant positive fuel trim deviation in closed loop.

We use the MAF Cal in closed loop to recalibrate the MAF sensor to the new tube and fix the induced sensor errors caused by poorly designed intake systems. Still tuning closed loop and fixing problems. So, yes there is a lot of closed loop tuning to be done with the MAF Cal.

You can also compensate for injectors that are different size from stock.

Just wanted to clear that up, the rest of the post is on target.

G
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
One thing to realize about those MAF calibrators is it may not give you any benefit depending on how you drive. If you are a commuter, your truck will likely very rarely see open loop operation and, if so, for very short amounts of time. The MAF only makes adjustments in open loop mode. So for those of you looking for a CAI for MPG purposes, if you drive conservatively (like you should if you're trying to eek out good MPG numbers), then I really don't see the benefit of the MAF calibrator unless it's to correct the error codes that are common to certain CAIs.
Good info! I've been seriously considering the URD MAF calibrator and plug-and-play harness (yes, it's more $$$ than the MAF itself, but I like the idea of not cutting into my ECU wiring and having the ability to completely remove it all w/out leaving a trace). With my TRD CAI (1st gen) and TRD cat-back exhaust, I'm not looking for drag strip performance increases in the rarely-used 5K RPM range on my daily driver. Rather, I am considering the MAF calibrator in order to maximize the efficiency/performance of my specific mods and (more importantly) to simply ensure my engine is operating within its optimal parameters. I've read that the truck's ECU is fully capable of adjusting the engine's settings into the optimal range for my mild intake & exhaust upgrades, but I'm not sure that's truly the case. I'm torn . . .
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Justus View Post
here ya guys go...........from Gman himself
Oh, I thought it was rich with the K&N 63
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Da_da View Post
Good info! I've been seriously considering the URD MAF calibrator and plug-and-play harness (yes, it's more $$$ than the MAF itself, but I like the idea of not cutting into my ECU wiring and having the ability to completely remove it all w/out leaving a trace). With my TRD CAI (1st gen) and TRD cat-back exhaust, I'm not looking for drag strip performance increases in the rarely-used 5K RPM range on my daily driver. Rather, I am considering the MAF calibrator in order to maximize the efficiency/performance of my specific mods and (more importantly) to simply ensure my engine is operating within its optimal parameters. I've read that the truck's ECU is fully capable of adjusting the engine's settings into the optimal range for my mild intake & exhaust upgrades, but I'm not sure that's truly the case. I'm torn . . .
keep in mind that these trucks run pig rich from the factory and I believe gadget found a free 15hp from a bone stock x runner, and a v6 camry just by using the maf calibrator..........and that guy does have dyno proof and access.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #20
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Name: Brock
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Justus's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by acdronin View Post
Oh, I thought it was rich with the K&N 63
Quote:
For example on the 5vz the K&N Series 63 will cause the engine to run very lean

wrong engine
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