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Old 02-28-2013, 10:25 AM   #1
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Drive Shaft Wind-Up

I decided to start a new post since when I originally reported this problem I thought it was my transmission slipping on my 2008 4x4 2CB. The dealer diagnosed it as driveshaft wrap-up caused by the slip yoke on the rear drive shaft not being able to slip anymore. The link is not serviceable by their standards, and the only thing to do is replace it.

I complained to Toyota USA and they agreed to cover the cost of replacement.

Okay, so I did that yesterday. When I got home, I crawled under to have a peak and the 'new' driveshaft but it appears to be a re-manufactured one. I can't tell for sure but it definitely does not look like the OEM as it is covered completely with a thick coat of black paint with no exposed barcode stickers or nice paintjob.

I've seen other posts about the driveshaft vibration and replacement shafts being just 're-balanced' returns. Is this what I got? I paid for a 'new' part as itemized in the invoice. Do they call those refurbs 'new'? Before I complain, I wanted some input from you all. Thanks, Randy
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:59 PM   #2
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HUH???

You say Toyota agreed to replace the part at no cost to you--you got the part replaced--you gonna complain that you didn't get what you PAID for??? (Bassinman wanders away from laptop muttering to himself with spittle drooling out of corner of mouth)
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:29 PM   #3
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So did it fix the problem?
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:09 PM   #4
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Different suppliers= different looking parts. Since you didn't pay anything and are still covered by warranty, find something important to occupy your mind.

Next mod or farkle would be a good start, need heavier? Think of opportunities to volunteer, Boy/Girl Scouts only takes about an hour per week. Food banks can use help, gotta truck-can haul.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:56 AM   #5
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My question relates to whether or not this is a NEW driveshaft or perhaps a refurb. Just because I am not the paying for the part doesn't mean I should ignore the issue if the dealership is not being 100% honest. Someone is paying for it and it is my obligation to make sure Toyota or their insurance company is not getting ripped off.

Eventually I would have to get this fixed. The problem is getting worse and potentially hazardous. So even if Toyota didn't cover it or 100% of it, I would have replaced it anyways. And if I spent my money and didn't get what I paid for, I'd be pissed. I bet you would be too. So why should it be different if I'm spending someone else's money? I have the same obligation to protect their interests.

Technically I am paying for it, 100%. That is the business relationship between the dealership and me. Toyota is reimbursing me, that is the business relationship between me and Toyota. Two separate transactions.

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Originally Posted by bassinman View Post
You say Toyota agreed to replace the part at no cost to you--you got the part replaced--you gonna complain that you didn't get what you PAID for??? (Bassinman wanders away from laptop muttering to himself with spittle drooling out of corner of mouth)
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:18 AM   #6
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It is typical, now a day they'll get caught with they-re hands in you-re pocket, and pretending to keep you-re money from falling off. No more moral values.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:06 AM   #7
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Well I guess you can take the moral high ground, I can understand that but it is unlikely that it is an issue you have enough information or evidence to actually make any accusations about the repair. Can you prove that the drive shaft has been re manufactured? Do you know for certain? This may or may not have been the authorized way to make your repair, you don't know and it is doubtful that you will be able gather that evidence or get a acknowledgement that is was a fraudulent transaction.

You are correct, you paid for the warranty coverage in the price of the vehicle but that only gives you the right to expect to have the repairs made to solve the problem. Your position as a watchdog on how it is done, with what, how much it costs who is not part of the warranty anymore than you telling the dealership that there fancy new building is generating too much overhead and debt for the company. Although I do make a statement on that with my feet.

If the repair hasn't solved your issue then you should pursue that. But the issue of whether the drive shaft was new or rebuilt is between the dealer and Toyota. I don't think you warranty spells out that repairs will be made with new parts, transmissions and engines are routinely replaced with re-manufactured units so to me it is not unwarranted that they would replace a drive shaft with a re-manufactured one if that was the most cost effective way to make the repair.

Basically all you are going to do is get in a P$$G match with the dealership, get a black eye and lose any cooperation that you might get from them in solving this or any future problems.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:35 AM   #8
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Perhaps I should rephrase my question. I purchased a NEW driveshaft from a dealer but it does not appear to me to be new or at least not OEM. Does anyone know if there a way to tell?
Thanks,
Randy


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Originally Posted by miniceptor86 View Post
Well I guess you can take the moral high ground, I can understand that but it is unlikely that it is an issue you have enough information or evidence to actually make any accusations about the repair. Can you prove that the drive shaft has been re manufactured? Do you know for certain? This may or may not have been the authorized way to make your repair, you don't know and it is doubtful that you will be able gather that evidence or get a acknowledgement that is was a fraudulent transaction.

You are correct, you paid for the warranty coverage in the price of the vehicle but that only gives you the right to expect to have the repairs made to solve the problem. Your position as a watchdog on how it is done, with what, how much it costs who is not part of the warranty anymore than you telling the dealership that there fancy new building is generating too much overhead and debt for the company. Although I do make a statement on that with my feet.

If the repair hasn't solved your issue then you should pursue that. But the issue of whether the drive shaft was new or rebuilt is between the dealer and Toyota. I don't think you warranty spells out that repairs will be made with new parts, transmissions and engines are routinely replaced with re-manufactured units so to me it is not unwarranted that they would replace a drive shaft with a re-manufactured one if that was the most cost effective way to make the repair.

Basically all you are going to do is get in a P$$G match with the dealership, get a black eye and lose any cooperation that you might get from them in solving this or any future problems.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by news8000 View Post
So did it fix the problem?
Don't know. The problem is very intermittent. It can happen several times a day for a while. Then I can go several weeks or even a month without an issue then all of a sudden I'm lurching into the crosswalk unexpectedly.

I'll let you know after a few months, if the problem went away.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:44 AM   #10
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It goes better and better.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:44 AM   #11
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My bad, I thought this was a warranty issue. I guess you just have to take the word of the Toyota dealership, if you have reasons to distrust them go somewhere else. As far as telling the difference I would have no idea other than a official looking sticker/tag with a Toyota PN on it. Being painted vs not painted has to do with storage and handling. Nice freshly delivered parts to the assembly line, or sitting in a warehouse and handled several times.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:48 AM   #12
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So to straighten me out. You paid for the drive shaft, Toyota paid for the labor to install it?
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:02 AM   #13
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Facory replacement parts are not always "new" parts. It is standard practice to use re-manufactured parts for warranty or goodwill repairs. The use of the word "new" in tech repair comments is often used as the replacement part is new to the vehicle. Not that the part is necessarily a "new" part. It could be re-man. This isn't done to deceve anyone. It just makes sense to the average customer of what repair was done.

Why don't you go back to the dealer with your invoice and concerns and have them explain it to you? Seems to me if you have a question about something go back to the source first.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:46 AM   #14
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Thanks all, that last round of responses helps. I plan on asking the dealer about it, I just wanted to come into the discussion with more knowledge on the subject on what a 'new' part is.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:06 AM   #15
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Just one more piece of info for your discussion. When the manufacturer uses reman parts for warranty/goodwill they are supplied by them through the normal parts system and come with a factory warranty. So in your case it should be a Toyota part. Not a reman from Elmo's driveshaft shop.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:54 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniceptor86 View Post
So to straighten me out. You paid for the drive shaft, Toyota paid for the labor to install it?
After reading everything, the true nature of the transaction isn't clear to me, either.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:19 AM   #17
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I think he took his truck to the dealership and had them fix it.. He paid the bill when he left..

Toyota is going to send him a check to reimburse him for the repairs.

For me the part that is confusing is what exactly is "Driveshaft Wind up"??? As a HD mech I have never heard the term..
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #18
Well, let's play chess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blygy View Post
I think he took his truck to the dealership and had them fix it.. He paid the bill when he left..

Toyota is going to send him a check to reimburse him for the repairs.

For me the part that is confusing is what exactly is "Driveshaft Wind up"??? As a HD mech I have never heard the term..
I've never heard of a reimbursement process like that at a dealership, or of drive shaft wind up. Sounds like something I'd expect from a rubber jointed drive line, not a steel U-joint.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
I've never heard of a reimbursement process like that at a dealership, or of drive shaft wind up. Sounds like something I'd expect from a rubber jointed drive line, not a steel U-joint.
Yes I took the truck in, had the repairs done, and paid the bill. $1300 Part and $100 labor. At the same time, I complained to Toyota about this problem as a manufacturer's defect and a safety concern. They, out of the goodness of their warm hearts ;-) responded that they will reimburse me for the repair costs at the dealership. It was a good faith gesture since I am a loyal Toyota owner with four VIN numbers under my belt.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
I've never heard of a reimbursement process like that at a dealership, or of drive shaft wind up. Sounds like something I'd expect from a rubber jointed drive line, not a steel U-joint.
Here is how "driveshaft wind-up" was explained to me. The rear driveshaft has a slip joint that allows it to change its length. This way the rear axle is allowed more freedom and flexibility. If the drive shaft is a fixed length this movement has to be a fixed arc making it less flexible. That all made perfect sense to me. But here is the part that relates to my truck's problem.

When coming to a stop, the rear driveshaft can get compressed (shortened) and the slip joint accommodates this. But if it can't shorten, it flexes instead, building up tension. When the pressure is released (after the forward momentum stops and the driveshaft is allowed to expand again) the tension is released which translates into torque being applied to the rear axle. When all the conditions are right, this 'release of tension' can be abrupt. To give you an idea of what it was like I described it like I I felt I got hit from behind. Or if you have a standard tranny, imagine yourself sitting at a red light and your foot slips off the clutch. It's abrupt enough to make the rear tires 'chirp' sometimes. This is why I originally thought it was a transmission problem.

I found it difficult to believe that this much torque could build up but the dealer's service guys made it sound like this is not and uncommon problem. It is a known issue with the Tundras and another vehicle (I don't recall which) but they said it was rare for the Tacomas to have this problem.

Someone out there can probably explain the physics better than me but that is the best way I can describe it.
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