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Old 03-15-2013, 05:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08TacoTrD View Post
The officers in question:

108 shots fired, and one mild wound to an innocent senior citizen. I just can't help myself..

I did meet an awesome Costa Mesa cop the other day. He has a Tundra and he stopped me to admire my truck. We BS'd for 10-15 minutes.. lol
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:29 PM   #22
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosis View Post
You just have to laugh at all these Monday morning quarterbacks judging the cops when they not only don't know the real story, they have never and will never be in a life threatening situation. It's so easy to judge from the safety of your moms basement.
I have been a police officer and I have put my life in harms way. With that said, you do not start shooting at a car until either you have confirmed the suspect is the one in the actual car, and there has been shots fired at you or the populace around you. No where on any story was there any evidence that the occupants of the vehicle fired upon the police nor the populace around. The city will settle and they should, this is not a justifiable shooting. Those police officers most likely will be fired.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlmuncy View Post
I have been a police officer and I have put my life in harms way. With that said, you do not start shooting at a car until either you have confirmed the suspect is the one in the actual car, and there has been shots fired at you or the populace around you. No where on any story was there any evidence that the occupants of the vehicle fired upon the police nor the populace around. The city will settle and they should, this is not a justifiable shooting. Those police officers most likely will be fired.
Excellent point. I love police that are true public servants and can recognize right from wrong. Thank you sir for you service.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Luckily neither were hurt in the barrage.
One took two bullets to the back and I believe is still in the hospital. The other is psychologically damaged and afraid to go outside.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosis View Post
You just have to laugh at all these Monday morning quarterbacks judging the cops when they not only don't know the real story, they have never and will never be in a life threatening situation. It's so easy to judge from the safety of your moms basement.
Wait, we all hear this from the media. We are all seeing the same pics and know the same facts (although some slightly distorted) but overall the story is the same. So what do you think is the appropriate response?

"They had it coming for driving a Tacoma down a street they shouldn't have.." should

"I think shoot first and ask questions later is how 8 sworn officers together behave all the time."

"It was worth it to shoot up a couple innocent ladies, it COULD have been the suspect yanno.."

I can't imagine what your point is here. Monday morning QB's? We are citizens commenting on a serious error that could have been ANY OF US. This was not accepted practice or acknowledged procedure. You need to take a good hard look in the mirror and figure out why you are upset people speak out about incidents like this.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:00 PM   #27
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxone View Post
Pssh... a little body filler and good as new, whoever did those shots in the tailgate needs to requalify....
Whats funny is you can see a lot by that picture. Remember there were 8 shooters in this. Actually their shot placement wasn't bad, but you have to look at what they were aiming at. I see both left tires are flat, so someone hit those pretty well.. maybe the right side are flat too. The "center mass" shooting just means that someone was aiming for the visible middle so they weren't doing anything except panic shooting at the perceived threat and following their training.

The groupings through the left and right side rear windows though were clearly intended to be kill shots to both the driver and passenger.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:45 PM   #29
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Fact: they were delivering newspapers, near 4-5 am with hazards flashing, and headlights off, so they dont shine lights in peoples homes, as they do in my neighborhood so they can be safe and seen.

I don't think dohrner would of came with hazards on causing attention to himself?
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:51 PM   #30
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They were looking for a Titan, not a frontier.
That's not really relevant.
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IBTL

This..
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X2 !!! lots o BS in this thread.. word of mouth, read it on the internet facts!
This too, this story is old, let it die.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:04 PM   #31
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Yep...let it go!
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:48 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=wlmuncy;6595269]I have been a police officer and I have put my life in harms way. With that said, you do not start shooting at a car until either you have confirmed the suspect is the one in the actual car, and there has been shots fired at you or the populace around you. No where on any story was there any evidence that the occupants of the vehicle fired upon the police nor the populace around.QUOTE]

I don't know what agency or dept you worked for, but this is not a policy. Period. I've been in many a situation where I was 100% positive there was a felon in the car, with a warrant. Some of those people ran from me and other Deputies. Guess how many I was allowed to shoot at. None. Why not? See Tennessee v. Garner - 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

Also I don't know who trained you to wait until someone shoots for you to shoot them, cause that just wrong, stupid, dangerous,and a death sentance.

I can understand the officers in this situation being nervous. That being said, based on the information I have read on the internet, this doesn't sound like a good shoot. Training can usually prevent things like this.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:54 PM   #33
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Holy crap! Poor truck. It brought a tear to my eye.

Brett
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #34
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x2

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Holy crap! Poor truck. It brought a tear to my eye.

Brett
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:36 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=Front sight;6595995]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlmuncy View Post
I have been a police officer and I have put my life in harms way. With that said, you do not start shooting at a car until either you have confirmed the suspect is the one in the actual car, and there has been shots fired at you or the populace around you. No where on any story was there any evidence that the occupants of the vehicle fired upon the police nor the populace around.QUOTE]

I don't know what agency or dept you worked for, but this is not a policy. Period. I've been in many a situation where I was 100% positive there was a felon in the car, with a warrant. Some of those people ran from me and other Deputies. Guess how many I was allowed to shoot at. None. Why not? See Tennessee v. Garner - 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

Also I don't know who trained you to wait until someone shoots for you to shoot them, cause that just wrong, stupid, dangerous,and a death sentance.

I can understand the officers in this situation being nervous. That being said, based on the information I have read on the internet, this doesn't sound like a good shoot. Training can usually prevent things like this.
That seems how it should be. Deadly force used if there is a valid threat to your life or others. In any case I think we all agree this was a mistake and shouldnt have gone down the way it did.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:14 AM   #36
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In my local newspaper
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:27 AM   #37
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That was announced yesterday.

Chief said he would replace the truck, but they discovered that the ladies would be liable for taxes, so they instead issued the cash settlement of $40k to replace the truck.

There is still a civil case open for the injuries, and LAPD is still investigating the incident. The blue Taco is being held in the evidence impound.

This isn't over. They've got a new truck, but they still likely hit the lottery.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:43 AM   #38
the logical one
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bet that thing whistles like a bitch now !
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:43 AM   #39
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[QUOTE=Front sight;6595995]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlmuncy View Post
I have been a police officer and I have put my life in harms way. With that said, you do not start shooting at a car until either you have confirmed the suspect is the one in the actual car, and there has been shots fired at you or the populace around you. No where on any story was there any evidence that the occupants of the vehicle fired upon the police nor the populace around.QUOTE]

I don't know what agency or dept you worked for, but this is not a policy. Period. I've been in many a situation where I was 100% positive there was a felon in the car, with a warrant. Some of those people ran from me and other Deputies. Guess how many I was allowed to shoot at. None. Why not? See Tennessee v. Garner - 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

Also I don't know who trained you to wait until someone shoots for you to shoot them, cause that just wrong, stupid, dangerous,and a death sentance.

I can understand the officers in this situation being nervous. That being said, based on the information I have read on the internet, this doesn't sound like a good shoot. Training can usually prevent things like this.
So I meant to say a confirmed threat, not to the point they have shot. So if you see a weapon and there is a movement to use that weapon against someone you are justified. That being stated, shooting at vehicle where you do not know who is in the vehicle, no confirmation of a weapon in any manner is a bad shot and I stand by my original statement these officers should be fired and prosecuted.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlmuncy View Post
So I meant to say a confirmed threat, not to the point they have shot. So if you see a weapon and there is a movement to use that weapon against someone you are justified. That being stated, shooting at vehicle where you do not know who is in the vehicle, no confirmation of a weapon in any manner is a bad shot and I stand by my original statement these officers should be fired and prosecuted.
Motor vehicles have been used under many circumstances to kill police officers.

There have been countless numbers of justified Officer involved shootings, where the suspect driver did not have a gun, but instead they used their vehicle as a deadly weapon.

How do you know that in the darkness, these officers, seeing a vehicle; -that is within the realm of a matching the description of the suspect vehicle (dark colored pickup), and had very recently been told that the suspect vehicle may have been spotted and heading their direction.
- [The released reports all say] the Tacoma was driving slowly,
-With it's headlights off,
- In the dark,
- swerving from one side of the road to another. When the officers became visible to the driver, she turned on her headlights and increased her speed, in hindsight, we now know that this was probably due to her driving, seeing some movement in front of her and having a "I wonder what that is - let me turn on the lights" moment.

I'm not saying that this was a good shoot, as far as the circumstances are concerned. It is terrible that these women went through that ordeal.

I'm wondering, though, how as a police officer for several years, you can make such an absolute statement about them being 100% in the wrong for this. You weren't there; How do you know what they felt? How do you know that in those moments, from those officers' perspectives, that they did not feel that their lives were threatened. The fact of the matter is, you weren't there, and we, as the public, still do not have every fact on this shooting, and therefore cannot say, with certainty, that there was no perceived immediate life threat, from the perspective of the officers involved.


If you take the situation out of the involved circumstances, you have this: A vehicle moving slowly at night with it's headlights off, swerving. An officer steps to within the drivers view to try to get their attention; The vehicle then turns on it's headlights and accelerates towards the officer.

Does that officer fear for their life? You're saying that you can determine the validity of another officer's fear by only the most miniscule and basic details of the incident. I just don't think that is a responsible stance to take.


Again, I'm not saying that there is no liability or responsibility to be assumed by the department. I absolutely think that there were mistakes made (by whom is yet to be determined). I think that these women are going to receive a hefty (and deserved) settlement.

However, I will not make a statement so bold as "the officers involved should be fired and prosecuted", when the investigation is not yet complete, and I was not there, and do not have the details of everything that occurred. If the investigation determines that the officers' did in fact act with absolute neglect, then they will face the consequences of their actions, but until then, we just don't know.
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