F@#%@#g abs almost killed me

Did you felt that you were losing control? Did you felt in danger ?

 

The back end kicked out pretty bad, and the front end was skidding downhill also. If you look closely at that picture, you'll see I backed off the brake pedal when the rear end kicked out with the ABS fuse pulled. I had to, the rear end was kicking out way too much, it was just a natural reaction.

Yeah, I was definitely losing control with ABS off, and that was on a slightly canted parking lot at 15 MPH. A panic stop with ABS off I'd be pumping the brakes and trying to keep the rear end under control at the same time. ABS on, at least you don't have to try to keep the rear end under control.

Either way there's some issues. Longer stopping distance vs. more control. The disable option is nice to have, though.

 

I just can't agree with that. While I do believe that the system needs some tweaking, having control of a vehicle on a low-traction surface, in my opinion, is better than no control and skidding sideways.

Thanks for taking the time to run the test. Yaw is one of the biggest issues with locking up brakes. That rear end wanting to come around can get pretty hectic.

On the bolded text, yes, I am quite aware that Jeep has such a switch. So does Toyota, for when it is in 4WD, and should be used off-road as mentioned. I personally prefer to have control of my steering, but that is my opinion. I am STILL amazed that you do not seem to be reading what I am saying. So I will make sure that it is plain and understandable:

I DO REALIZE THAT AN ABS STOP HAS A LONGER STOPPING DISTANCE THAN WHEN NOT IN AN ABS STOP.

Perhaps now that will clarify things. Personally I prefer to have more control. Knowing the issues that people are having with the Tacoma, until something gets resolved then I would change my driving style to compensate. Perhaps nobody wants to change how they drive in bad weather. Yes, I do realize that a lot of these ABS activations occur when slowly stopping around 5 MPH. Guess what, that means I will be slowing down even sooner, and preparing myself for this to happen. Either way, the system is doing what it is designed to do. Yes, it does appear to be overly sensitive. I have agreed on that point time after time after time. Seems like nobody seems to be getting this. Fine. You don't like how your truck stops? Contact Toyota directly as I have suggested and ask to have it inspected and resolved. I also see many people in this thread and others saying that they have been having no trouble at all with their ABS in snow, ice, or mud. So it is evidently not every Tacoma. I would be more than happy to compile some information to provide to Toyota. If there is a problem, then they need to know about it.

 

I agree with your statement about the importance of having control of the vehicle on a low traction surface , the difference is I feel more in control of the situation without ABS

 

EDIT: I retract my statement, apparently I was wrong.
I apologize.

 

FTW, how can this thread get any better than this?

 

Are you SERIOUS? You obviously have not read all of my posts. I have repeatedly stated that the Tacoma system needs some work. I have NEVER stated that the Tacoma system is perfect, nor defended it's failures. I have been in defense of the ABS system itself, as designed for all vehicles, and how it is supposed to work. Too many people have complained that it is supposed to stop your truck faster. I said that it does not. I have also not said people do not drive properly. I said how I would drive if I ran into a problem or issue with a Tacoma until it got fixed. You should really go back and reread the entire forum because you have obviously missed my entire point in all of this.

 

the test/picture by monkeyface sums up perfectly what many of us are trying to get across. obviously ABS helps keep straight line control of the vehicle, but at the cost of braking distance. However, if you are used to driving without ABS you understand the vehicle is going to slide and you know to correct for this. As evidenced by mokeyfaces's picture he started sliding a bit but he corrected for it properly and was still able to stop in a shorter distance.

THAT is the point many of us are trying to make. Just because ABS is disabled does not mean the truck becomes a death trap. If you understand how the vehicle reacts and that you may have to let off the brakes for a split second to correct and straighten up, then you can still stop quicker (in snow and offroad).

 

say the person who joined in Mar 2013 and has 9 posts, who elected you Mayor of TacomaWorld ?

I know for damn sure myself and any other noobs don't and can't speak for the veterans on the forum LOL

 

Agreed. I don't think it is a deathtrap. If I ever implied it was, then I am sorry. I do however feel that the removal of a fuse to disable the ABS system, or installing an ABS "off" switch for normal driving is a bad idea. Mainly because by doing so you violate federal law, and open yourself up to serious civil liabilities if you are in an accident and someone gets hurt. Also I have driven both ABS equipped and non-ABS equipped vehicles all my life. I have learned the adjustments to make and have been able to avoid a horrible t-bone accident because the ABS system allowed me to steer to avoid the car.

To each his own of course. I just personally prefer having it available. Yes though, the Tacoma needs to have some evaluation to determine what is making it so sensitive, and to see if there is a simple correction, or if it will require something more extensive. I am pretty curious which wheels are locking up more often, and what the weight distribution is on the trucks. That non-metal bed has to seriously affect rear weight.

Hey Monkeyface, care to redo that test with some ballast weight in the rear end?


Research shows this:
Trim Curb Weight 3315.00 lbs
Base Trim Weight - Front 1823.00 lbs
Base Trim Weight - Rear 1492.00 lbs

So the rear end weight shows to be 470lbs lighter in the rear.

 

ABS SUCKS BECAUSE OF REASONS.



has anyone gotten an official response from a dealer on this? That alone is the ONLY thing that could justify this thread going on IMO

 

I can agree with that. I prefer to have my on the fly switch so I can turn it off if I deem it necessary.

The weight difference has to be a pretty big reason, but i think it goes further than that. Now this is strictly based on what i have felt and i don't have much to back it up, but it feels to me like brake pressure is reduced too much in the front wheels by the ABS unit. I say that because the truck seems to just keep rolling when ABS kicks in, instead of aggressively trying to stop.

Obviously this can't be confirmed without some high pressure brake gauges. I would be seriously interested in seeing a similar test on snow to see the max pressure that could be achieved without ABS to see when the front wheels begin to lockup. Then a second test using abs to see what pressure the unit uses/allows. This test is much harder to accomplish and I don't see it happening, but it would be nice info to know.

 

Having an ABS switch does leave ABS available

 

Correct, but having an ABS cut off switch can still open the door for insurance companies to deny claims. Thought that is not the direction the thread was intended to go I think. I did let myself get on a tangent with my statement about that point.

 

One could argue altering the vehicle in any way from stock ( lift , wheel spacers , larger tires , and resulting interaction with VSC and Traction control systems ) could lead to the same result , so I don't view this " mod " in any different light than those

 

The difference is that US federal law states that modifying the ABS system, even on your own vehicle, is a violation of federal law. The specifics of that law was posted earlier in this thread. That is how this mod is different.

 

I thought that law did not apply to owners , but to manufacturers

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6668488#post6668488

?

 

I swear you have to be a lawyer to read some of that stuff. I have always heard for years that owners were still not allowed to modify the ABS system. Not being able to find a specific passage in the document, I will concede at this point on the federal law. However you are still under risk of civil lawsuits, which do put a person at risk by making a modification. I will have to do some extra research on the federal laws for ABS systems to see if I can find the statute. I do remember when I was taking some of my most recent training programs for ABS that there was mention of it. Time to dig out the old paperwork and have a look!

 

Toyotas ABS should be selectable..........then again, look at the shit tires they give us.......

the airbags tend to be selectable instead..........they work for a few yrs, and then around 60K they select to take vacation


I tink they are trying to kill us...............