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F@#%@#g abs almost killed me

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Old 03-26-2013, 08:35 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
Well there should be an 'offroad' option or some kind of factory killswitch for abs then. Because on dirt/gravel, you just want to stop as fast as you clan, not steer.
ABS has caused me to hit a fence pn a backroad several months ago. Was only going 40mph when I came upon on a corner on a dirt/gravel road. It was night and there were no warning curve ahead signs. Slam on brakes expecting to stop but nope, just kept sliding.
While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, youre gonna go straight at that speed on dirt.

IMO car companies need to remember that their vehicles still get drove offroad and they arent all pavement princess's.
We need more off road options that allow certain 'safety' programs that work on asphalt and not dirt, to be turned off.
You first have to get that by the feds. As mentioned in another similar topic, manufacturers can't disable, or allow to be disabled, any ABS system. Violates federal law on ABS systems, as well as increases their risk of liability should someone "accidentally" forget to turn it back on when they got back onto pavement. Laws on safety are based on normal highways and paved roads. They are not including off-road type driving, because that is considered optional, and driving at your own risk if you choose to do so. Safety organizations do not take off-road driving or "trails", including dirt roads, to be something that is needed to be included in laws.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:53 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
Well there should be an 'offroad' option or some kind of factory killswitch for abs then. Because on dirt/gravel, you just want to stop as fast as you clan, not steer.
There is it's called "TRD offroad model" turn on rear locker, abs is disabled, brakes good, steering bad.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
Well there should be an 'offroad' option or some kind of factory killswitch for abs then. Because on dirt/gravel, you just want to stop as fast as you clan, not steer.
ABS has caused me to hit a fence pn a backroad several months ago. Was only going 40mph when I came upon on a corner on a dirt/gravel road. It was night and there were no warning curve ahead signs. Slam on brakes expecting to stop but nope, just kept sliding.
While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, youre gonna go straight at that speed on dirt.

IMO car companies need to remember that their vehicles still get drove offroad and they arent all pavement princess's.
We need more off road options that allow certain 'safety' programs that work on asphalt and not dirt, to be turned off.
Read what you wrote again. Really? That sounds like it is all on you. Dirt, gravel road at night going too fast on an unknown back road.

Hmmmm.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:56 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Jimmyh View Post
Read what you wrote again. Really? That sounds like it is all on you. Dirt, gravel road at night going too fast on an unknown back road.

Hmmmm.
Eh. Posted Speed limits on them is 35-40. I shouldnt have to be scared of going the speed limit on dirt roads because my computer might not let my brakes lock up when need be.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:21 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
Well there should be an 'offroad' option or some kind of factory killswitch for abs then. Because on dirt/gravel, you just want to stop as fast as you clan, not steer.
ABS has caused me to hit a fence pn a backroad several months ago. Was only going 40mph when I came upon on a corner on a dirt/gravel road. It was night and there were no warning curve ahead signs. Slam on brakes expecting to stop but nope, just kept sliding.
While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, youre gonna go straight at that speed on dirt.

IMO car companies need to remember that their vehicles still get drove offroad and they arent all pavement princess's.
We need more off road options that allow certain 'safety' programs that work on asphalt and not dirt, to be turned off.
Going 40 on a gravel road at night isn't a bright idea. Gravel road signage isn't set to a standard like a highway or a freeway. Deer jump out, rocks roll off of ledges drunks roll over and more. Perhaps trucks can even handle 70 on a gravel road,( I know you didn't say that ...just for example) you still have to be able to manage a safe stop. Also speed limit is top speed , no guarantees you can go that fast because its posted.

Best story I seen on that was a Suburu trying to go 45-50, when I pulled over where the road stopped being maintained... he shot past and immediately cracked his oil pan on a domed rock and high centered. We have to face the consequences of our actions sooner or later.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherreject View Post
F@#%@#g abs almost killed me
I absolutely love ABS brakes. Works great in most conditions. However, since each ABS-equipped vehicle is slightly different, I did have to adapt a bit to each. Actually, every vehicle really requires a bit of getting used to, whatever the braking system. Anyway, with the Tacoma*, if the brakes lock up on slick surfaces ("the limits of the gripping performance"), pump the brakes (let off the pedal & reapply) and keep doing so until you stop. This is obviously different than normal ABS braking, but similar to stopping with regular, non-ABS, brakes on slick surfaces. If you don't have enough time to do that, you would't have enough time to pump regular, non-ABS, brakes either.

*From the owners manual (you were warned)…
....• The ABS does not operate effectively when
.........• The limits of the gripping performance have been reached.
.........• The vehicle hydroplanes while driving at high speed on the wet or slick road.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
I absolutely love ABS brakes. Works great in most conditions. However, since each ABS-equipped vehicle is slightly different, I did have to adapt a bit to each. Actually, every vehicle really requires a bit of getting used to, whatever the braking system. Anyway, with the Tacoma*, if the brakes lock up on slick surfaces ("the limits of the gripping performance"), pump the brakes (let off the pedal & reapply) and keep doing so until you stop. This is obviously different than normal ABS braking, but similar to stopping with regular, non-ABS, brakes on slick surfaces. If you don't have enough time to do that, you would't have enough time to pump regular, non-ABS, brakes either.

*From the owners manual (you were warned)…
....• The ABS does not operate effectively when
.........• The limits of the gripping performance have been reached.
.........• The vehicle hydroplanes while driving at high speed on the wet or slick road.
Not to get into a pissing match, I see your valid points. But isn't the point of modern ABS braking systems to not to have to pump the pedal? I believe there are many situations that can benefit from the ABS systems on our trucks. I also see the need for a manual override, which is why I have a ABS kill switch.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:22 PM   #88
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^^ The key words in my comment, and the manual (quoted), are "limits of the gripping performance have been reached." At that point, you obviously have to resort to a different tactic than just blindly depending on the ABS brakes. Not begrudging your use of an ABS kill switch, but I wouldn't do it (especially when it's easy enough to just change the way I brake in such conditions).
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:31 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
^^ The key words in my comment, and the manual (quoted), are "limits of the gripping performance have been reached." At that point, you obviously have to resort to a different tactic than just blindly depending on the ABS brakes. Not begrudging your use of an ABS kill switch, but I wouldn't do it (especially when it's easy enough to just change the way I brake in such conditions).
I do see your point. Different driving styles, suspension set-ups, tires, driving surface, etc. do have a significant impact on the ''gripping performance'' of the stock braking system. Sometimes I find that the road conditions I am involved with are handled better by stock ABS, and some bring out the woeful inadequacies of it. I respect your choice of not modifying the ABS system, instead your own driving habits.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:43 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactusone View Post
There is it's called "TRD offroad model" turn on rear locker, abs is disabled, brakes good, steering bad.
Whos going to be going 40MPH in 4-low?
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:18 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleCabGuy View Post
Eh. Posted Speed limits on them is 35-40. I shouldnt have to be scared of going the speed limit on dirt roads because my computer might not let my brakes lock up when need be.
If what you said is true ( here is a quote ): " While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, you're gonna go straight at that speed on dirt. "

ABS or not it would not have mattered by what you are saying. I wasn't there I'm just going by your words.

Maybe you could blame it on the County Government as they posted the speed limit too high for that curve.

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Old 03-26-2013, 08:22 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyh View Post
If what you said is true ( here is a quote ): " While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, you're gonna go straight at that speed on dirt. "

ABS or not it would not have mattered by what you are saying. I wasn't there I'm just going by your words.

Maybe you could blame it on the County Government as they posted the speed limit too high for that curve.

Right but in that situation, being able to just straight up skid to a stop wouldve prevented me from hitting the fence. I shouldve pulled the ebrake but didnt think about that in time. I was almosttt done sliding when i went into the fence. And ABS has been proven to increase stopping distances an avg of 22% on dirt/gravel.
That 22% wouldve made the difference between me hitting the fence, and stopping before it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:28 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyh View Post
If what you said is true ( here is a quote ): " While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, you're gonna go straight at that speed on dirt. "

ABS or not it would not have mattered by what you are saying. I wasn't there I'm just going by your words.

Maybe you could blame it on the County Government as they posted the speed limit too high for that curve.

Posted speed limit isn't a recommendation or safety guarantee, simply based on day and dry conditions a top speed overall. A 35 posted mph for example is the road overall, a black and white regulation sign.
A yellow curve sign (warning) would have a smaller sign posting a recommended speed, still they aren't saying its ok to go that speed anytime and the driver has no blame, just a guidance.
That speed is not what you have to go. The signs aren't saying its safe at that speed at all times.
The will often lower speeds as people have accidents, that doesn't prove it was unsafe, simply that people cited for speed causing an accident, makes for a prudent reduction to prevent more accidents.
That's the point when the comments come out like " they artificially lower the speed limit to generate revenue"... but no police are enforcing it. Go figure.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:31 PM   #94
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ABS increases stopping distances especially in low traction conditions

There can be no arguement about that
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:36 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
ABS increases stopping distances especially in low traction conditions

There can be no arguement about that
Yea, we get some fresh snow, eventually packed snow access roads we drive for elk season. I'ts not fun or always needed to put some chains on just to go down a hill if you can build a slight snow pile.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:43 PM   #96
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I understand all the arguments and here's my worthless .02.....

When I bought my Taco in January I treated it like every other vehicle ever purchased - tested the tires/brakes/driveline .
Jump on the throttle hard , note traction - check .
Tires break loose easily (POS fukn Rugged Trails) - check .
Test ABS system - yep, it allows the damned thing to just keep going with a seriously disturbing lack of braking power - check .

Drive accordingly - check .

I've had several times the abs kicks in way too aggressively and yes it's an issue that the manufacturers somehow should address - can't agree on that one enough .
That said , tires are a huge factor - learned that one quickly after swapping out the junk Goodyear highway treads for Yoko's Geo ATS on my Dakota , it would almost hurt you stopping so hard even in wet conditions . The Taco will probably get the same tire here damned soon , I want something I can trust .

One other thing -
I haven't yet tried but after straining my dead-old eyes reading all these posts on the ABS I will be trying the pump-the-shit-out-of-it method next time it's wet out and see if that will make a difference . I know pulling into a parking spot on a light skiff of snow and the damned truck wanting to just plow ahead with the pedal to the floor is bullshit , knocking it into neutral did seem to help at the time but I'd like more tests to determine the best reaction overall - pump/no-pump .

Ramble off ,
Sarge
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
ABS increases stopping distances especially in low traction conditions

There can be no arguement about that
In more conditions than not, yes it does. In my limited six month experience with the Toyota ABS system, I have run into a few situations where it has been more beneficial to override the factory ABS. These situations have been duplicated multiple times in conditions on the same stretch of road in mostly snow and ice ABS on and ABS off. I have found that my particular setup suspension and tire wise handle my situations better without ABS than with. In no way am I saying that no ABS is better, merely stating that in some situations it has it's benefits.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #98
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:shakeshead: I love how people always blame the driver. "oh you must not have experience in snow" "going too fast" etc...

I had my ABS kick in going 5 mph or maybe a little less down a slight grade, stopping behind a car at a light with maybe an inch or so of slush, and I was just about to stop, and ABS decided, "oh your slipping". I almost rear ended this car, because of it. Stopped 5 maybe 6 feet further than I would of, if they didn't kick in.

With that said, I have never had any issues, on dry or wet roads. (knock on wood)
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:47 PM   #99
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BTW------

Just as an example of what modern abs systems can/cannot do - I've been rear-ended twice in my old '77 FJ40 , once in snow , second time in rain . No damage to the 40 but the Ford minivan and nearly new Honda both suffered some decent damage . The old 40 just has the stock brakes and really dry rotted/hard old 33" MT's , both accidents were just people braking early for no reason so I had to stop fairly hard . Never slid a wheel , either .
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:39 PM   #100
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IBTL

Yeah another pissing match!

I will still stand by with the fact that people that have problems with ABS don't know how to brake.

Both 2 gens I have had worked great in the snow and what ever. Brakes always work great. In snow, slush, mud, gravel.

I think the main thing is you need to test it in all conditions and learn what to do and what not to do.

Anyway piss on
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