Better Gas Mileage

[TSUNAMI*22]

Here's one to think about. Can we all agree that better atomization of fuel and air create better horsepower for a given weight of air/fuel?

Years ago when I was racing giant scale r/c aircraft we made a dramatic increase in power when we put a fine mesh screen between the carburator jet and the combustion chamber.

The air/fuel mix was introduced at the carb, then that initial mixture was passed through a screen which created a fog of air/fuel before it entered the cylinder. We were able to run richer mixtures with better atomization and boy what a difference.

Now, lets approach this practice in reverse. Let's say that the fuel injectors inject a specific amount of fuel for each signal, wouldn't it stand to reason that introducing a screen after the injectors would lean out the mixture when the ECU calibrates the horsepower gained....and thus increasing fuel efficiency?

Just thinking out loud here. Flame away!

[ECOTAZ]

Originally Posted by TSUNAMI*22

Here's one to think about. Can we all agree that better atomization of fuel and air create better horsepower for a given weight of air/fuel?

Years ago when I was racing giant scale r/c aircraft we made a dramatic increase in power when we put a fine mesh screen between the carburator jet and the combustion chamber.

The air/fuel mix was introduced at the carb, then that initial mixture was passed through a screen which created a fog of air/fuel before it entered the cylinder. We were able to run richer mixtures with better atomization and boy what a difference.

Now, lets approach this practice in reverse. Let's say that the fuel injectors inject a specific amount of fuel for each signal, wouldn't it stand to reason that introducing a screen after the injectors would lean out the mixture when the ECU calibrates the horsepower gained....and thus increasing fuel efficiency?

Just thinking out loud here. Flame away!

Thanks Tsunami22

Actually those racing days is where some of this technology comes from for fuel injected vehicles. It is great when people start looking at lab tests compared to real world testing. Lab tests are great for the scientist in us becuase we see it in black and white. Real World testing is great for the curiosity in us and we feel it by the seat of our pants or "butt dyno".
Not all lab tests prove themselves in real world applications and not all real world tests prove themselve scientifically, However one major factor is $$$ Money $$$. If you have 10 to 12 percent less money going into fuel every week and less maintenance cost with injectors and O2 sensors due to carbon build-up, this means extra cash in your bank account! Niether science or real world test stands up to that. The fleets we work with have one thing in common, to compete as most profitable as possible. They see the return on their investments and that is exciting to them. For the individual that wants extra performance and save some money on fuel, and lower overall maintenance costs ECO-Systems makes sense.

In real world testing there is several variables as far as wind, humidity, fueling stations, expanded gas versus cool gas, winter blends versus summer blends, driver error and so on and so on.
However if you drive pretty much the same 3 tanks before and 3 tanks after this will give you a pretty good average to go by.

In lab testing, you don't have heavy throttle accelarations, AC, variable winds, different fuels, heavy and light traffic, expanded gas compared to cool gas, humidity changes and so on and so on.
Who drives like that?

So I agree with our two testers. This is a real unbiased test.

As I have said before we will not start the group buy untill I get the O.K. from the Forums Admin.

As for warranty issues, everyone is covered by Federal Law under the Magnuson Moss Act of 1974. This law was passed to protect the consumer from manufacturers saying your warranty is voided just because you added an after market product. The manufacturer must first prove that product caused the problem before voiding your warranty. This law is still in effect today. We also carry product liability for damage which is proven to be caused by our product to protect you the consumer. All dealerships have to adhere to the manufacturer's warranty.

We have not been tested by popular mechanics or myth busters. We would want to be present when testing to make sure we compare apples to apples.
Who better to set protocol for testing than the inventor himself. I've always said a controlled lab test can control the results.

Thanks and I look forward to your final results.
Ben

[106Tacoma]

My friend has tried to talk me into using this acetone for years, his truck is a 95 ranger and has no problems Runs like a top and he has been doing this since new. Ill stick with it. I cant complain about 34 mpg today!

[TSUNAMI*22]

Originally Posted by 106Tacoma

My friend has tried to talk me into using this acetone for years, his truck is a 95 ranger and has no problems Runs like a top and he has been doing this since new. Ill stick with it. I cant complain about 34 mpg today!

Hehe, I've been doing the acetone for years now. I use about 10 oz. per 20 gallons of fuel. I use it to remove varnish build up and to keep those injectors misty and efficient.

Btw, I just did my first tank fill. 307.5 miles and 11.267 gallons filled to brim. This = 27.247 mpg. Not bad considering 1/2 that was in-town and the highway portion was in 4th gear with the tachometer about 2,500 - 2,900 ish @ (70-75 mph).

30 mpg should be fairly easy. Here's a hint......make each shift before 2500 rpm. I tried making 1st to 2nd @ 2,000 but it lugs just a tad. Make smooth throttle motions too.

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by natrlyst

Testing methodology for engine and gas mileage
1) fill tank
2) drive until tank is on empty
3) continue above steps

In all seriousness, I have an 07 and have 55,000 miles on it, I am averaging 25-28 on the highway depending on the prairie winds more than the octane level, should I consider that adequate? I have run 87-92 octane and it doesn't seem to matter too much. I have considered my mileage good but I also drive like and old lady 28 days out of the month and like Mario the other days. This longwinded intro leads to my question, what advantage is there to putting in fuel saving devices, does anyone plan to do a cost comparison analysis in conjuntion with the mileage testing?

I can do an extremely "basic" cost comparison, but I cannot account for change in fuel price. Therefore, it will have to be based on a static price. I should note that fuel economy is not the only reason to use a VPE. It also reduces emissions and increases power to an extent. These three things combined are the reason that I wanted to test the VPE.

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by el_smurfo

I'm not a chemical engineer, but it seems that there is general consensus that copper should not be used for any gasoline system. This particular link is a little technical, but several other searches seem to indicate that copper acts as a catalyst with many compounds found in gasoline to form deposits and sludge. There is a reason that automotive fuel systems use mainly stainless steel...it does not react chemically with the fuel.

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract...ef049849h.html

I read over the article, and I should point out that these tests are talking about having copper deposits in the fuel as an additive. Yes, copper as a catalyst in a tank will cause gum and buildup in the tank, but in the case of the VPE the copper is only being used just before ignition. This happens after final filtration. Unless you are using a poor quality fuel, you won't get gumming and deposits in you injection system (with or without the VPE).

The article does state that copper acts as a catalyst for the oxidization of the fuel before it reaches the combustion chamber. This results in the more efficient burn of the fuel.

Originally Posted by el_smurfo

In 2005, the Society of Automotive Engineers introduced a new test procedure for engine horsepower and torque.[5] The procedure eliminates some of the areas of flexibility in power measurement, and requires an independent observer present when engines are measured. The test is voluntary, but engines completing it can be advertised as "SAE-certified".
Many manufacturers began switching to the new rating immediately, often with surprising results. The rated output of Cadillac's supercharged Northstar V8 jumped from 440 hp (328 kW) to 469 hp (350 kW) under the new tests, while the rating for Toyota's Camry 3.0 L 1MZ-FE V6 fell from 210 hp (157 kW) to 190 hp (142 kW). The first engine certified under the new program was the 7.0 L LS7 used in the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. Certified power rose slightly from 500 hp (373 kW) to 505 hp (377 kW).

The Tacomas, Camrys, Tundras, 4Runners, FJ Cruisers, etc have all been subjected to this same test since 2005. Toyota has stated that the change in power from 2005 to 2006 was due to the change in fuel octane used for testing to reflect what most drivers were buying for their vehicles.

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by 106Tacoma

My friend has tried to talk me into using this acetone for years, his truck is a 95 ranger and has no problems Runs like a top and he has been doing this since new. Ill stick with it. I cant complain about 34 mpg today!

Wow - that is really tempting, but I think I will stay away from it for now. I may try one or two tanks of it come next year, but using acetone scares me. With the fuel lines, seals, filters and all having plastic components and seals; I am wary of putting acetone (in any concentration) against them.

It does make sense though.

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by TSUNAMI*22

Hehe, I've been doing the acetone for years now. I use about 10 oz. per 20 gallons of fuel. I use it to remove varnish build up and to keep those injectors misty and efficient.

Btw, I just did my first tank fill. 307.5 miles and 11.267 gallons filled to brim. This = 27.247 mpg. Not bad considering 1/2 that was in-town and the highway portion was in 4th gear with the tachometer about 2,500 - 2,900 ish @ (70-75 mph).

30 mpg should be fairly easy. Here's a hint......make each shift before 2500 rpm. I tried making 1st to 2nd @ 2,000 but it lugs just a tad. Make smooth throttle motions too.

That is great! I kinda wish I didn't get a PreRunner just so I could get the better mileage (damn 4.10 diff ratio), but I hope to get up to 27 MPG consistantly at some point.

We are glad to have you here!

[m3dragon]

Originally Posted by TSUNAMI*22

Here's one to think about. Can we all agree that better atomization of fuel and air create better horsepower for a given weight of air/fuel?

I am just going to disagree for no real reason

JK

[nd]

Damn this thread is growing fast!

Maverick: i think you have already determined that the ECO doesnt do anything when towing right? so are the remainder of your tests going to be on the truck by itself? I have more interest in those results than i do towing results since i pretty much concede that my fuel economy is gonna suck anytiime i tow or haul anything.

ECOTAZ: As for the warranty. I know about the Magnuson Moss Act, however, that doesnt mean teh dealer wont give you a hard time. They probably bank on teh fact that you wont take them to court over it. I dont feel like having to fight to get them to honor their warranty. I have heard of people having a differential leak and the dealer not fixing it by trying to blame the leak on a lift. lifts dont cause diff leaks but by the time you prove that in court your court fees will be high and you will have wasted alot of time. Thats what i'm worried about. Them popping the hood and going "well thats your problem. we dont know what that is but its not factory so that must be what caused you to throw a rod, we're not fixing it". You and i both know dealers will try to get out of expenses if they can whether there is a federal law or not. I'm just worried about how this will affect my engine in the long run and affect my warranty

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by ndcouch

Damn this thread is growing fast!

Maverick: i think you have already determined that the ECO doesnt do anything when towing right? so are the remainder of your tests going to be on the truck by itself? I have more interest in those results than i do towing results since i pretty much concede that my fuel economy is gonna suck anytiime i tow or haul anything.

ECOTAZ: As for the warranty. I know about the Magnuson Moss Act, however, that doesnt mean teh dealer wont give you a hard time. They probably bank on teh fact that you wont take them to court over it. I dont feel like having to fight to get them to honor their warranty. I have heard of people having a differential leak and the dealer not fixing it by trying to blame the leak on a lift. lifts dont cause diff leaks but by the time you prove that in court your court fees will be high and you will have wasted alot of time. Thats what i'm worried about. Them popping the hood and going "well thats your problem. we dont know what that is but its not factory so that must be what caused you to throw a rod, we're not fixing it". You and i both know dealers will try to get out of expenses if they can whether there is a federal law or not. I'm just worried about how this will affect my engine in the long run and affect my warranty

I still have one or maybe two more camping trips planned during the remainder of the test, and I will still be compiling data on those trips as well, and will add it in on the final report anyway, but primarily I want to get two more highway runs (truck solo) in before concluding the test and getting together with 007 to write up the results.

Not to step on Ecotaz's toes, but to answer your warranty questiton, just take it out if you are going in for warranty. There is nothing simpler than taking this in and out, it is just two little quick release button/clip/connector things, and it's out. All it'll cost you to re-install it when you get home is a few new zipties. But to further elaborate, if you truck is running poorly I'd take it out before going to the dealer to avoid the agravation, but if you are just going in becasue the radio stopped working or there's a rattle in the dash or something I wouldn't worry about it, as there is no way they could possible say that a VPE caused your radio to crap out.

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by maverick491

Not to step on Ecotaz's toes, but to answer your warranty questiton, just take it out if you are going in for warranty. There is nothing simpler than taking this in and out, it is just two little quick release button/clip/connector things, and it's out. All it'll cost you to re-install it when you get home is a few new zipties.

Definitely - taking mine out after several weeks was a snap. I spilled a little gasoline, but install and uninstall are very easy once you know how to do it.

[nd]

Thanks for the resonse 007 and Mav

[ECOTAZ]

Originally Posted by ndcouch

Damn this thread is growing fast!

Maverick: i think you have already determined that the ECO doesnt do anything when towing right? so are the remainder of your tests going to be on the truck by itself? I have more interest in those results than i do towing results since i pretty much concede that my fuel economy is gonna suck anytiime i tow or haul anything.

ECOTAZ: As for the warranty. I know about the Magnuson Moss Act, however, that doesnt mean teh dealer wont give you a hard time. They probably bank on teh fact that you wont take them to court over it. I dont feel like having to fight to get them to honor their warranty. I have heard of people having a differential leak and the dealer not fixing it by trying to blame the leak on a lift. lifts dont cause diff leaks but by the time you prove that in court your court fees will be high and you will have wasted alot of time. Thats what i'm worried about. Them popping the hood and going "well thats your problem. we dont know what that is but its not factory so that must be what caused you to throw a rod, we're not fixing it". You and i both know dealers will try to get out of expenses if they can whether there is a federal law or not. I'm just worried about how this will affect my engine in the long run and affect my warranty

Maverick 491 and Tacoma 007 have both made a good point about removing the VPE, however we have nothing to hide with any of the dealers. You are correct in that some dealerships may try to blame anything for NOT covering your damage under warranty.
However if you read your Manufacturers warranty it states that they the manufacturer must first prove that any aftermarket product caused the damage first before voiding the warranty and that is the same as the Federal Law under the Magnuson Moss Act. Now if you add any device that alters the normal performance of your engine or add additives not reccommended then they can void the warranty. Our product does niether. We simply enhance the fuel you are currently using for better performance.
Thanks
Ben

[TuRDTACO]

So i made a username on tacomaworld when i bought my truck in may...after spending the past 2 hours reading this entire thread through it's safe to say i'll be on here more often now lol

[TuRDTACO]

so there has been alot of talk over the last dozen posts of removing the 2nd air filter element in the stock intake? whats the deal with that? i mean i know why it'd work but where the hell is it and how do i get it out of my truck!?! oh and by the way, there has been talk of "driving like a pissed off teenager" and just to let you know, here i am haha, granted i'm 21 and my trdtaco is my work truck for roofing sales, but i average about 14-15mpg in the city with every tank of gas. go figure racing light-to-light, a constant 30+mph over the speed limit and shifting through the gears of my 5speed auto trans would affect it right!?!