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"Official" Firestone RideRite + Lift Thread

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Old 05-28-2013, 06:59 PM   #1
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"Official" Firestone RideRite + Lift Thread

Hi guys,

Trying to get some data in one place of trucks that have a rear lift and are also using the Ride Rite Air Bags. I've come across several different owners/different setup's. I'm trying to figure out what is best.

If you have a lifted truck with these bags can you post how you are running them, how the ride is, and if you feel that your articulation has been affected? Here is what I've come across so far.

1. Lift + Stock Bag Setup:

Some who have lifted their trucks have not done anything different. Technically, if the suspension travel has not been altered that I don't think anything has to change? The bag will be stretched more as the truck sits regularly on flat ground.

2. Lift + Spacer + Bag:

They sell different spacer lengths for different lift heights, I believe the lowest is a 2" spacer. If you add the matching spacer to your lift this will put the bag at where it would be if the car was stock. Assuming again no increase in travel, not sure what the benefit here would be.

3. Lift + Threadless Guide Bolt

One owner reported using a long bolt w/ no threads on the end. This basically made the bag "free floating" and would support weight when compressed but upon full droop, the bag was not attached to anything so the wheel was free to drop as low as it could. When the wheel was compressed again, the bolt would guide the bag back down and center.

What I'm trying to get clarification on here is what happens during full compression. If the bolt has no where to go than it would seemingly bottom out the suspension on the bolt itself.

Increased Travel Setups

As of now, it seems that if you have an increased travel suspension you will not be able to take full advantage of the travel. I installed the suspension components of the Baja model which is supposed to increase rear travel by 1.5 inches.

I used a 2" spacer and I can tell that my up-travel is being limited because of this. I can feel the "bottoming out" sensation in the rear over large speed bumps and other bigger hits at speed. The front goes over them effortlessly.

Any pictures of your setups could be helpful too. At rest on level ground w/ min (5psi) in the bags might be a good reference.

Here is mine at rest and at full or close to full droop, I could not tell.



The bag looks fully stretched here but when I felt it there was still some give, it was not as taught as it looked.



I've emailed Fire Stone about this as well and will update the thread when I hear more information. So far I have been told that the bags will support the wheels at full droop if they are the limiting factor, as long as it's not a sudden drop (like a jump).


Edit: Adding info from later post to main post


Got the Daystar Airbag Cradles installed today. So far they are AWESOME. Removed the spacers completely, the cradles do rise up a bit.

They only slight problem so far is that the cradle is not 100% centered so the bags are just touching the lip of the cradle. The material of the cradle is very smooth but I'm still worried about wear. I might try adding a strip of inner tube or figure another way to move the cradle a bit, not sure how I will do that though as the bottom of the cradle is vented (not ideal for drilling).

At rest, no load, 5psi.



Testing droop - 5psi





Loaded boat - 0 psi



Loaded boat 25 psi



Loaded boat - 25 psi



Before



After




Update 6/25/2013

I have managed to pretty much center the cradles and so far I'm not seeing any issues.

I also got a chance to do some light wheeling over the weekend and everything works great. Ride is much better in the back without the spacers as expected and as observed on road.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:23 AM   #2
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The thread-less shoulder on an extended bolt doesn't sound like a good idea. I understand the bag acts as a damper, but doesn't that go both ways for the suspension? Basically, i think that adding a longer bolt to slide on makes the air bags half as useful. Hope someone with more experience can chime in on this.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:43 AM   #4
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I have the ride-rites with bilstien 5100/OME 885 set at 2.5". I went thru AAL's blocks etc and could not get the ride height where I need it. Plus on occasion I carry loads about 500#. Love that I can add air to level the truck with load. It has a firm ride but not as bad as when I had the AAL installed. Haven't checked articulation yet but will soon.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:16 AM   #5
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I got an email back from Firestone, a little disappointing.

Edit: Not saying Firestone Sucks, or their CS sucks, just saying I wish a better solution was available for lifted trucks.

"After looking at the photos I am sure that you do get a rough ride. The spring ride height looks to low and I don’t feel that you needed a spacer that tall. The springs need more travel to give a better ride so that you don’t get that feeling of bottoming out. I am also not sure what spacer that is but it’s not a firestone spacer because ours are black and are almost the same diameter and the metal plates on the springs. The warranty states that we don’t cover parts for vehicles used off road and I know the system will not allow for full travel once the suspension flexed. The company daystar has a cup that they use on the ford raptor and you may want to look into something like that.."

You would think that they would have a solution for lifted trucks with so many of them on the road.

Here is the cup that he's referring to, doesn't seem like they make one for Toyota.

http://daystarweb.com/productdetail.php?productID=1232

We want our trucks to do everything. Hit the trails, tow the boat to the river, take us to work and transport the family on long road trips. Adding an air bag system to your full-size truck or SUV has always meant scratching at least one of those off your list. With most air bag systems, the lower air bag mount is placed above the leaf spring significantly reducing wheel travel by design. Your air bag system should compliment your truck, not inhibit its ability. Daystar’s new Air Bag Cradle* (Patent Pending) mounts to your trucks lower suspension providing more room for the air bag to safely cycle with no loss of overall wheel travel. Inferior lower air bag mounts restrict air bag movement using inadequate space, which can lead to unexpected damage to the air bag. Made from extremely tough Daystar Polyurethane, the Air Bag Cradle allows for full suspension travel, while still allowing the full benefits of your air bag system. The Air Bag Cradle fits most full-size pick up trucks, and SUV’s running 6-inch diameter air bags and are made in the USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=r4QBG3izhyA
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #6
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Why would they have a solution for non-stock trucks? Most vehicles on the road are stock... Very few people modify them, the ones that do tend to post on forums like this... So you see a disproportionate opinion.

From a manufactures stand point... Designing for anything non-stock is VERY challenging. How much lift, what components, what else has been added in the area etc etc etc. The. You get the people not happy that something doesn't fit their particular bizzare combination.

Seems like it's time for you to learn how to fab!
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #7
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Also, Firestone showed you a solution to look into despite using their product out of application and against their warnings... And that's "disappointing"? Honestly I'm quite impressed they helped you out so much!
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:20 PM   #8
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Wait... so Firestone says in one breathe that they won't warranty products used off road then turns around and tells you how to mate their system with another company's product? Sounds like if you're down to void your warranty regardless, the Daystar cup thing is a nice option. I can't imagine the air bag lasting a long time taking hits like that though if you do a lot of higher speed runs.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMan View Post
Why would they have a solution for non-stock trucks? Most vehicles on the road are stock... Very few people modify them, the ones that do tend to post on forums like this... So you see a disproportionate opinion.

From a manufactures stand point... Designing for anything non-stock is VERY challenging. How much lift, what components, what else has been added in the area etc etc etc. The. You get the people not happy that something doesn't fit their particular bizzare combination.

Seems like it's time for you to learn how to fab!
I get what you're saying but at the same time, with this argument you could say, why are there any aftermarket companies at all? Most trucks on the road are stock so who needs Icon or King or Fox coilovers? Or the many many different leaf packs, UCA's, wheels, etc.

I don't think it's out of the question to try a figure out a universal solution to their airbags for trucks with lifts. Maybe there is no easy solution and that's why it doesn't exist, but it would be nice.

I am disappointed, I want to use all the travel on my truck. I didn't bash the company or anything, I didn't say their CS was bad, I just wish a solution existed.

It would be nice to have time to fab, but I barely have enough time to eat and deuce.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:40 AM   #10
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The whole reason for the air bags is to make your truck capable of carrying a lot more weight than it is designed to. If you are carrying 1000 lbs in the bed why would you be concerned about suspension flex? Do you expect your truck to be able to do the rubicon trail with 15 bags of cement in the bed? Plus tell me now many other companies would even tell you about another product that is not theirs and not designed for their product? At least that gives you an idea. I think that is a great solution.


With that said thats what I want the airbag cup. That is a really good idea. When I have time later this summer I might look into fabing something up.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utard View Post
The whole reason for the air bags is to make your truck capable of carrying a lot more weight than it is designed to. If you are carrying 1000 lbs in the bed why would you be concerned about suspension flex? Do you expect your truck to be able to do the rubicon trail with 15 bags of cement in the bed?


With that said thats what I want the airbag cup. That is a really good idea. When I have time later this summer I might look into fabing something up.
What about people who camp on trails? They'd be carrying a lot of weight and still need the suspension to flex although I'd argue if that was the intent when setting the truck up then air bags are not a good option but rather a stronger leaf spring setup.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
What about people who camp on trails? They'd be carrying a lot of weight and still need the suspension to flex although I'd argue if that was the intent when setting the truck up then air bags are not a good option but rather a stronger leaf spring setup.
You must not camp much? Who needs 1000+lbs of gear camping?
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utard View Post
You must not camp much? Who needs 1000+lbs of gear camping?
I camp a lot and usually end up with 5-600 lbs worth of gear and food. I also don't camp while wheeling though. If I were carrying extra parts, full skids, winch, plate bumpers (especially a rear one with a swing out tire gate) and everything I would possibly need for a multiple day excursion away from anything resembling civilization, I'd bet I could get up to 1,000 lbs of cargo. Those RTT weigh a couple hundred pounds by themselves don't they?
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utard View Post
The whole reason for the air bags is to make your truck capable of carrying a lot more weight than it is designed to. If you are carrying 1000 lbs in the bed why would you be concerned about suspension flex? Do you expect your truck to be able to do the rubicon trail with 15 bags of cement in the bed? Plus tell me now many other companies would even tell you about another product that is not theirs and not designed for their product? At least that gives you an idea. I think that is a great solution.


With that said thats what I want the airbag cup. That is a really good idea. When I have time later this summer I might look into fabing something up.
Have you seen an off-road with weight in the bed? You only need a few hundred lbs to make the headlights point skyward. I'm not worried about flex with 1000 lbs in the bed, just in general. Your example of running the Rubicon with cement in the bed has no relevance.

My goal with my truck is to have something that will do a little bit of everything well. Some crawling, some higher speed stuff and towing. The reason for the bags is for when I tow my boat. The sag with the stock springs is a joke.

With the truck un-weighted I wanted good ride with a suspension capable of soaking up bumps nicely. Based on reviews I've read I decided to go with the Baja suspension components. One thing it did not include was the extra leaf from the stock 4 leaf pack. I decided to go with the Icon AAL as it's designed for ride and not load capacity. Not wanting to wear those down prematurely with excess weight, I also got the RideRites.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:08 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=littleblue81;6954847]I got an email back from Firestone, a little disappointing.

Edit: Not saying Firestone Sucks, or their CS sucks, just saying I wish a better solution was available for lifted trucks.

"After looking at the photos I am sure that you do get a rough ride. The spring ride height looks to low and I donít feel that you needed a spacer that tall. The springs need more travel to give a better ride so that you donít get that feeling of bottoming out. I am also not sure what spacer that is but itís not a firestone spacer because ours are black and are almost the same diameter and the metal plates on the springs. The warranty states that we donít cover parts for vehicles used off road and I know the system will not allow for full travel once the suspension flexed. The company daystar has a cup that they use on the ford raptor and you may want to look into something like that.."

You would think that they would have a solution for lifted trucks with so many of them on the road.

Here is the cup that he's referring to, doesn't seem like they make one for Toyota.

http://daystarweb.com/productdetail.php?productID=1232

We want our trucks to do everything. Hit the trails, tow the boat to the river, take us to work and transport the family on long road trips. Adding an air bag system to your full-size truck or SUV has always meant scratching at least one of those off your list. With most air bag systems, the lower air bag mount is placed above the leaf spring significantly reducing wheel travel by design. Your air bag system should compliment your truck, not inhibit its ability. Daystarís new Air Bag Cradle* (Patent Pending) mounts to your trucks lower suspension providing more room for the air bag to safely cycle with no loss of overall wheel travel. Inferior lower air bag mounts restrict air bag movement using inadequate space, which can lead to unexpected damage to the air bag. Made from extremely tough Daystar Polyurethane, the Air Bag Cradle allows for full suspension travel, while still allowing the full benefits of your air bag system. The Air Bag Cradle fits most full-size pick up trucks, and SUVís running 6-inch diameter air bags and are made in the USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...hyA[/QUOTE]
Got a question. What happens when the truck is slinging mud and small stones while bouncing like in the video and all that mess gets under the airbag?
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #16
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http://www.amazon.com/Daystar-KU0914.../dp/B0084ROJBM
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:16 PM   #17
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Alright, I ordered a set of the Daystar cradles and will try to install on Sat. They are vented so water, ice, mud shouldn't be an issue. Rocks are a different story but the likelihood of one landing in there seems pretty slim.

I'll report back afterwards. The Amazon reviews are promising as are the photo shown there.

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Old 05-30-2013, 02:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleblue81 View Post
Alright, I ordered a set of the Daystar cradles and will try to install on Sat. They are vented so water, ice, mud shouldn't be an issue. Rocks are a different story but the likelihood of one landing in there seems pretty slim.

I'll report back afterwards.

I think you might be suprised.. rocks have a habit of going everywhere.
seems like a better spring pack would suit your needs better than all of this??
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis0076 View Post
I think you might be suprised.. rocks have a habit of going everywhere.
seems like a better spring pack would suit your needs better than all of this??
I'm not sure at this point. This is my first pickup and I'm really unfamiliar with how the different leaf packs ride. My assumption was that heavier duty leaf packs would ruin the plush ride in higher speed running which is the stronger suit of the suspension package I went with. So it just made sense to go with the Icons.

I guess I'll be the Guinea Pig.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleblue81 View Post
I'm not sure at this point. This is my first pickup and I'm really unfamiliar with how the different leaf packs ride. My assumption was that heavier duty leaf packs would ruin the plush ride in higher speed running which is the stronger suit of the suspension package I went with. So it just made sense to go with the Icons.

I guess I'll be the Guinea Pig.

I thought so too.. but I did the dakar leafpacks.. and man.. i love em.
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