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Old 07-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU Taco85 View Post
this guy must be part of the David K. fan club or a fucking troll, just won't let it go
Or just joking about it, like I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
[...]
Anyway, I notice you can't run it with the locker simultaneously. I will say this: I have found locked rear/traction bullshit front to be superior to locked rear/open front in most conditions. Exceptions include mud, sand, snow. When rolling with truly locked front/rear trucks, I often have to give it a bit more hell to get to the same places they do. In any event, I stand by previous statements about effectiveness.
Nice turn of phrase.

Thanks for the appraisal. That's what I was wondering about, as I haven't seen much discussion about how locked rears with open/A-TRAC/locked fronts compared. Having the option of open/A-TRAC/locked front & rear seems hard to beat, so I have Brady envy.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:50 PM   #62
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locked front is nice
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:54 PM   #63
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Fuck! haha I just spent the last 10 minutes looking for that thread, finally found it and you beat me to it

I find it weird that he said the exceptions were mud, sand and snow... Those would be the 3 places I would think A-TRAC would do best. Places where you can really get on the throttle. You have to give it some throttle to get the sensors to notice the wheels are spinning to get A-TRAC to start working. Those 3 situations make it easier. A-TRAC sucks for rock crawling though. Pretty sketchy to have to give it enough gas to spin the tires when the tires are on rocks. haha A-TRAC is all about using a little speed. I love my lockers because you don't need that speed.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #64
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It would make more sense if they put it on the non-TRD models.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:04 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
In an 05? Nah. But with F/R air lockers you're not missing anything.

People enamored with the fucking traction control are people who don't wheel to any degree of hardship. Those of us who have have found its limits, think it's a fine system that they included for free, but it's not fooling anybody about being on par with actual locking differentials.

On the topic of this thread: I had two destroyed OEM R + Ps in under 30,000 miles before regearing to Nitro 4.56s. No problems since then. However, I did have a traction bar put on along with the re-gear, so which one helped the most I couldn't tell you. What I CAN tell you is if this goddam axle shits the bed again it's going to disappear altogether.
Well, you're talking about some major duty stuff that I could walk up faster than you could crawl up. I'm not gonna spend thousands of dollars to crawl where I can walk to. Ah well, to each his own.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU Taco85 View Post
for rock brawling, ATRAC sucks since it won't actually kick in at such low speeds. Front locker FTMFW. I've had my ATRAC on and it has done absolutely poop for me at low speeds. What I do use it for is on a place where I need to turn since turning while locked F/R is quite difficult and puts alot of strain on the drivetrain components. Other than that ATRAC ain't worth the engineer that design it
A-TRAC is actually a clever use of what was, for the most part, already on the truck. IMO, the same goes for all the rest of the aids that are based on the ABS. There's an argument to be made against bumping the price so high for an OR over a handful of fairly inexpensive parts and some control software, but A-TRAC isn't worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyT88 View Post
It would make more sense if they put [A-TRAC] on the non-TRD models.
A-TRAC for all 4WD models, and the OR gets F/R lockers, too. That'd be sweet, and it'd make the price jump to OR more reasonable.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyface View Post
Well, you're talking about some major duty stuff that I could walk up faster than you could crawl up. I'm not gonna spend thousands of dollars to crawl where I can walk to. Ah well, to each his own.
Exactly
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:37 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU Taco85 View Post
Well never said it was worthless, just not worth much IMO. Instead of creating all that electronic jargon and charging a fortune for a traction control system program simpler than most nintendo games, Toyota could have been a little kinder and threw in a clamshell version of the HP 8" elocker from the FZJ-80s, that would have been tits.
Let's just say you aren't a fan on par with David K.

Barring OEM lockers F/R (which I agree would be excellent), Toyota is completely screwing up the control interface of the aids. There's no good reason for it to be so jacked up, with buttons and knobs scattered around the dash. Add in the confusing array of terminology and it's a clumsy mess. That's one thing they really need to clean up on the 3rd gen, if not sooner.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:14 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU Taco85 View Post
well yeah I agree David's post on the subject was good, as Toyota's explanation of the buttons could certainly use some elaboration. Did Toyota accomplish their mission of overloading the car consumer with buttons and knobs in order to make them think they were something worthwhile? I'd say so. I doubt a Toyota salesperson could even tell you what ATRAC stands for, let alone explain how it works or what it does.
No doubt. I've rarely met a salesperson that really knew their offerings. When I have, they've always been my kind of people. My Tacoma salesdud didn't know a frakkin' thing about the truck.

I bought a Prius a few weeks ago and two salesduds showed me the power steering pump reservoir ... that was filled with coolant. When asked why there was coolant in the "power steering reservoir", and a larger coolant reservoir on the other side of the engine bay, the head scratching started. After politely explaining that EPAS didn't have a reservoir, that the larger tank was engine coolant, and the smaller was inverter/converter coolant, they wanted to know what an inverter/converter did. I'm sure they forgot it all, but Wife enjoyed it.

After the drivetrain lesson, they gleefully ran through Entune. Not so good under the hood, but that, they knew reasonably well.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:17 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Let's just say you aren't a fan on par with David K.

Barring OEM lockers F/R (which I agree would be excellent), Toyota is completely screwing up the control interface of the aids. There's no good reason for it to be so jacked up, with buttons and knobs scattered around the dash. Add in the confusing array of terminology and it's a clumsy mess. That's one thing they really need to clean up on the 3rd gen, if not sooner.
Yeah, I think I said somewhere it proves the Japanese have a diabolical and sneaky sense of humor. How else to explain the Taco and the jumble of this, that, and the other. And the lack of this that and the other. Somewhere somebody is hehe'ing. "You ron't buy aw plemium vehicires? Haha, we give you topnotch, but keep aray plemium! HaHa!" Laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by monkeyface View Post
Well, you're talking about some major duty stuff that I could walk up faster than you could crawl up. I'm not gonna spend thousands of dollars to crawl where I can walk to. Ah well, to each his own.
This mentality essentially negates any reason to offroad (or drive, for that matter) at all. I mean, after all, you can walk to work. It just takes a while.

Point is, it's a leisure activity. Best not think too hard about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyT88 View Post
I find it weird that he said the exceptions were mud, sand and snow... Those would be the 3 places I would think A-TRAC would do best.
You need wheelspin to deal with that stuff most effectively. It prevents this. This isn't to say it's completely useless...if stuck, one might as well turn it on and try. God knows it's surprised me a few times.

Locked is the way to go because all four wheels are trying to put ground behind you and spin freely at the same time.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #72
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
You need wheelspin to deal with that stuff most effectively. It prevents this. This isn't to say it's completely useless...if stuck, one might as well turn it on and try. God knows it's surprised me a few times.

Locked is the way to go because all four wheels are trying to put ground behind you and spin freely at the same time.
Well I haven't experimented with it too hard in those situations, mostly just crawling and shaley hill climbs. Maybe I will this weekend in the sand, but I would think if you gave it enough throttle you should essentially start to get all 4 tires moving, albeit maybe not all at once. haha

And what do you mean turn it on. haha The 2005's are the lucky year that have no buttons to control any of that... My VCS is always on until I flip it into 4Hi, upon which my TRAC is always on until I flip it into 4LO where TRAC becomes A-TRAC that is until I engage my rear locker. Once I do that A-TRAC and ABS both finally turn completely off. (Not that I don't have a handful of relays added to the 4wd ECU and some extra switches on the dash to take care of these issues for me)
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:50 PM   #74
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*looses
How do you loose a mind? With a screw driver? So they have a screw loose?
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
This mentality essentially negates any reason to offroad (or drive, for that matter) at all. I mean, after all, you can walk to work. It just takes a while.

Point is, it's a leisure activity. Best not think too hard about it.



You need wheelspin to deal with that stuff most effectively. It prevents this. This isn't to say it's completely useless...if stuck, one might as well turn it on and try. God knows it's surprised me a few times.

Locked is the way to go because all four wheels are trying to put ground behind you and spin freely at the same time.
Please.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #76
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Please.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #77
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #78
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #79
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