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sport vs off road axles

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by wildcats, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. Jul 20, 2013 at 12:33 AM
    #81
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    LOL... Can we have fun with our Tacomas or what?

    I hope only to educate and increase appreciation for the technology in our trucks. Seems most of the A-TRAC bad-mouthers don't have it or had money to spend on non-Toyota traction mods (ARB, Front lockers, etc.)

    When I praised Toyota (and Lexus) for adding A-TRAC to the many models and finally to the Tacoma, it was what I would call a great addition. My 2010 A-TRAC equipped Tacoma is my THIRD Off Road 4WD Tacoma (the others were a 2001 and a 2005). The A-TRAC increases the off road ability, and security (not getting stuck) factor over the previous two Tacomas. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that a limited-slip or nearly locked front axle is superior to having only an open differential when in deep muck, loose rocks, or steep and rough grades.

    A-TRAC is a LOW RANGE, CRAWLING SPEED system, so wheel spin is VERY brief to activate it, and you don't have to do anything more than crawl in the rough. Speed damages, and the benefit of 4WD-LO is to apply maximum power at the slowest speeds. The A-TRAC just stops a non-traction tire from spinning faster than the other tire on that axle (as does a locker, only A-TRAC works automatically and frees-up the tire automatically). You have seen the video where just one (front) of the 4 tires was on solid ground, A-TRAC can pull the truck ahead? The other 3 tires were on rollers. I have high centered my truck, going uphill, and A-TRAC pulled me out when just one front tire had good contact.

    It is pretty great BECAUSE it is INCLUDED in the price of the Off Road 4WD, making the Tacoma the most capable STOCK off road truck, IMO. It is also great because it will take the truck to the same places as an otherwise identical truck with expensive front lockers added. Sure, it is not as smooth or as fast acting as having a front (and rear) locked truck... but for free*, I will take the few extra seconds the A-TRAC requires over the $2,000 (?) ARB locked truck.

    *no additional cost with the Off Road package, which I always got because of the rear locker.

    I have yet to get stuck or not be able to pull my friends out of trouble with my 2010 Tacoma... so, I am very happy with the system, and its price.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As for the following (on Page 4 of this thread), if I said mud was a place I didn't use A-TRAC, I misspoke, because MUD is a place I use it, along with steep, loose rocky grades, and pulling others. I also used it with the rear locker in snow and was happy with the easy performance. A-TRAC doesn't activate unless you go below 3 mph, and then only on the front axle. Sand is NOT a place where I would use it, unless I was stuck (from not having TRAC on in H4 or deflating tires)... Because in sand, you want normal speed and not low end torque... A-TRAC is a LOW RANGE/ SLOW system... Use it whenever you are in L4!



    So, you guys carry on if you must, but since there was some bringing my name up on almost every one of the 7 pages here, I thought I should just clear up any questions or mis-statements.

    Have a great weekend and keep on four wheeling!:cool:
     
  2. Jul 20, 2013 at 2:26 AM
    #82
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

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    When your name came up, well...

    fuck it, nevermind
     
  3. Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 AM
    #83
    BradyT88

    BradyT88 Well-Known Member

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    This must be a record huh? 7 pages before you show up. haha


    While a lot of stuff you could probably follow me in even with my front locker (you'd just have to pick up some speed usually), I can think of a few places in the rocks that you couldn't, just because it would be too harsh trying to pick up speed to compensate for that lack of front locker.
     
  4. Jul 20, 2013 at 12:32 PM
    #84
    username

    username Fluffer

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    ^LOL

    Up until this post I honestly believed everyone was being sarcastic about liking atrac. It's unbelievable to me that anyone who actually uses their yota offroad would like any of the electronic traction control systems. Personally I disabled them as soon as I figured out how, to include ABS. To each his own...
     
  5. Jul 20, 2013 at 12:54 PM
    #85
    username

    username Fluffer

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    It limits the throttle. I just found for me and my driving style I was better off without it. I would understand keeping it if you don't have any driving experience or are more of a "run to starbucks" kind of person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXmvkvcLJng
     
  6. Jul 20, 2013 at 3:28 PM
    #86
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    LOL... Yes, the A-TRAC ONLY works when you need traction, so the differentials are open the rest of the time for superior steering on the trail. As soon as a tire spins from loss of traction then the power that normally would be lost to the non-traction tire is shared with the other tire on the axle... the result is you move ahead.

    Yes, the 3 mph deal is when the rear diff is locked. However, since traction loss means you stop moving forward, and A-TRAC only 'locks' the two tires per axle during traction loss, how fast would you be moving?

    Yes, A-TRAC works on all 4 tires except if you also lock the rear.

    A-TRAC keeps you moving ahead or gets you unstuck if you didn't have it on when in L4. I don't get the throttle limit part, if you loose traction, why would you want to spin the tires faster and get stuck worse?

    Anyway, for those who have actually tried it in severe off road situations, then they know how much more this truck can do than one with only an open front end. It is not as smooth or quick to climb as the after-market front locker is. It is just free, and it works, and if there was one place it outshines front lockers (besides saving your $1,000's of dollars) is in steering... it doesn't mess with steering ability the way lockers do.

    As for traction controls overall, how do you explain the praise given by those non A-TRAC trucks who have done the 4-LOW-TRAC (Yellow Wire) MOD and by adding 'TRAC' to the front while in L4, experience a great improvement in off road ability?

    Like it or not, traction control (limited slip) is an improvement over the open differentials without it. One tire in front spinning and one tire in the rear spinning is not better than all four tires sharing power (partially or fully).

    Have a nice day and go four wheeling!
     
  7. Jul 20, 2013 at 3:40 PM
    #87
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

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    That'd be all good and well if you did any actual 4 wheeling.
     
  8. Jul 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM
    #88
    username

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    In the beginning of this video the first time I tried to go up Atrac was on. I backed up, turned it off and you can see the results yourself. IF it didn't limit throttle, it would be far more useful. It's not like I am pulling this out of my ass, I tested it extensively. Hell, I pioneered 90% of the traction control mods for the 05+ (and the governor disable mod, ABS off mod, locker mod which Dick Foster helped greatly with, 2LO mod, manual shift T-case mod, etc, etc.). If it works for you, fap on with your bad self. It didn't work for me. :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpoz2cVM5bg&feature=share&list=TLo9LJ4UarIhU
     
  9. Jul 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM
    #89
    BradyT88

    BradyT88 Well-Known Member

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    Because there are people out there like David K who mostly spends time in situations where A-Trac works and there are people like username and I who just never are or rarely are.
     
  10. Jul 21, 2013 at 12:40 AM
    #90
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    So, we can all agree it works in some L4 conditions, but is not needed in all L4 conditions.

    I can agree with that!

    The rear locker is also a third drive mode we can have to wheel with, either with or without A-TRAC on.

    What other factory stock mid size truck has so much off roading options that work so well?

    a) L4 no traction control
    b) L4 with A-TRAC
    c) L4 with the rear locked
    d) L4 with the rear locked and the front with A-TRAC

    Plus, a mod to add TRAC (AUTO LSD) to all 4 tires in L4.

    The Tacoma is a 'tank' off road that crawls, pulls, and amazes.
     
  11. Jul 21, 2013 at 12:53 AM
    #91
    MGMTacolover55

    MGMTacolover55 Well-Known Member

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    I A-TRACed your mom last night
     
  12. Jul 21, 2013 at 1:27 AM
    #92
    mr2mki

    mr2mki Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression that one of the distinguishing features of atrac was that it does not control the throttle? VSC, which is on by default in 4Hi, certainly does. But VSC is never on in 4Lo, and you can turn it off in 4Hi.
     
  13. Jul 21, 2013 at 1:44 AM
    #93
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, she died over 20 years ago... but loved four wheeling!


    HBMURPHEY took the following photos on one of the toughest Baja trails, in 2010... to Mission Santa Maria de los Angeles, the 17th California mission, located in a remote oasis canyon, 300 miles from San Diego and 15 miles off Hwy. 1. That's 15 miles that requires 3 hours to drive in! Much longer to drive out!

    A-TRAC was equipped on 2 rigs (2009, 2010 Tacoma), but used exclusively only on mine as a test(2010), front and rear lockers were on 3 rigs (2009 Tacoma, 2003 Tacoma, motorhome van), rear lockers on another (Dodge Dakota), and one had only open differentials and had to be pulled through the bog both ways (4Runner).

    The A-TRAC worked flawlessly and I never needed to use the rear differential as I had on my previous two Tacomas, going in to Santa Maria.

    Art with the ARB lockers on the front and rear of his 'motorhome' exclaimed that the A-TRAC system was "better" than lockers in this situation. Perhaps because he had to constantly lock and unlock his differentials in order to make the sharp turns on the Rubicon-like granite steep road surface?

    Neal, it the white Taco with the pop up camper suffered a rear differential failure early on the day we left the mission, requiring him to be pulled up the steep mountain grade by Art and CG (in the Dakota). It was a custom locking diff. and with extreme load over such a harsh trail.

    I did get my almost new Tacoma rear differential contaminated with muddy water on this trip, so the rear breather mod was performed at once!
     
  14. Jul 21, 2013 at 2:32 AM
    #94
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

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    This shit again? Yeah yeah, we've all seen your HARDCORE trip.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jul 21, 2013 at 2:49 AM
    #95
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

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    Can we just get someone, preferably with a manual, to run hells gate using only atrac?
     
  16. Jul 21, 2013 at 7:18 AM
    #96
    BradyT88

    BradyT88 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't ran hells gate but do you even need lockers for that? If you have a good spotter it would be pretty easy to keep all four tires down. Escalator would be a better challenge. I'm sure I could have done it without my front locker but not sure about neither locker. But hey, I figure I paid that much for that front locker I might as well use it. Plus when you are running lockers you don't have to abuse your rig as much to get through stuff.
     
  17. Jul 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM
    #97
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    Another video from someone in Mexico with a modified Cherokee, showing much of the road to Santa Maria mission... Perhaps a better way to show what a factory stock Tacoma, no mods just A-TRAC was able to cruise through with only damage to the rear bumper due to one poor spot where I drove off a bit of a cliff rock! LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k46uFVwO2eY#at=220

    My posts are about praising Toyota for adding a system that works, and if it works for little old me, then why wouldn't it work for anyone else?

    The OP was interested in the 8.4 vs. 8.0 diff.???

    Well, my three Tacoma Off Road 8.0 diffs have had a total of over 300,000 miles, and not one failure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  18. Jul 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM
    #98
    tostidos

    tostidos Well-Known Member

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    Damage to rear bumper has nothing to do with A-TRAC and everything with ground clearance and picking lines...
     
  19. Jul 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM
    #99
    BradyT88

    BradyT88 Well-Known Member

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    What?:anonymous: haha I need to bob my bed...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Jul 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM
    #100
    mr2mki

    mr2mki Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but that will never stop people from b*tching about it. I've seen this conversation play out with sports cars, motorcycles, and now trucks too. Paraphrasing:

    "Should I get Feature A?"

    "Yeah Feature A has uses"

    "No Feature B is so much better, Feature A is teh suxx0rz"

    "Feature B isn't an option from the factory"

    "I don't care, Feature A is teh suxx0rz, Feature B is so much better!"

    Same script, different communities.

    Don't you know? If one person doesn't like it for their uses, that means it is useless for everyone in all use cases ;)


    Honestly, I don't have the background or experience yet to be an authority on the subject, but I've seen this exact story play out time and time again with things I was well versed on...
     

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