Bearing in Tranny Pan

Hey friends, I'm new to the forum and new as a Tacoma owner. About three weeks ago I got my first Tacoma, a 2008 SR5 4x4 AC, certified pre-owned through a Toyota dealership. The car had 67k miles and I saved $500 by declining the warranty--I mean, it's a Toyota and supposedly went through a 170-point inspection..

Well after driving it for 3k miles, I noticed that it had a very slight grind when shifting (when shifting quicker rather than slower) into 3rd gear. I read about this issue on this forum and folks seemed to preach switching to Redline MT-90. So I was doing this in my driveway, all went well, but then, sunk in the tranny pan full of spent gear oil, I found a ball bearing! WTF?! The bearing is small, (about 3mm in diameter), shiny, silver, and metal.

What the hell is this bearing and what should I be doing about it?? Thank you in advance for your advice!

 

I should mention that is is a manual transmission.

 

You mean a ball coming from a bearing? I don't think a 3mm diameter bearing ever existed (maybe in electronics only...)

 

You got it three weeks ago and you've driven 3000 miles in three weeks? I would be talking to the dealership that certified the 170 point inspection and making damn sure they fix the problem.

 

that aint good

 

Welcome to TW. That definitely isnt good, would go back to the dealer and try to get anything you can out of them.

Also,

Is eastern California even a place? lol

 

Ha, Eastern California is sort of a place, more of a big region isolated between two ranges of 14,000 ft mountains. Bishop, CA is more exact.

I didn't take anything apart, just changed the transmission fluid and the ball bearing (barely larger than a bb from a bb gun) fell out into the pan along with the spent gear oil. Definitely shouldn't have declined the warranty. I bought the car from a Toyota dealer in Indiana, had my dad (who lives in Michigan) load his BMW /5 into the bed of the truck and drive it out to California for me.. hence the 3,000 miles in 3 weeks.

Consensus seems to be to beg the dealer for some help, not to drive the car until it gets fixed, and to not decline the warranty next time I buy certified pre-owned. sigh..

 

First off, as mentioned, you should have taken the warranty, especially at such a low price, but hindsight is always 20/20. That being said, you bought it as is, and declined the warranty, so I would not be surprised if they declined taking care of anything.

As for the problem itself, if you have found a 3mm ball in the bottom of a manual transmission, then you are most likely looking at a synchronizer detent ball. They are a small part inside each synchronizer that is used to help lock the synchro into place when you shift into a gear. You know that little feeling in the shifter as you get it into place, you get that little "bump" feel as it drops into gear? That is the ball detents. If one or more fall out, then something in a syncro is most likely coming apart, and it will get worse QUICKLY, so get it taken care of.

 

Bill, when one buys a used Toyota from a Toyota dealership, doesn't it at least have a 30 day warranty (BECAUSE of the 170 pt inspection?) I was under the impression that if the car is not CPO then it has some kind of little teeny warranty like this?

EDIT: I just realized OP said it WAS CPO!!!

Shouldn't it have a warranty?? Isn't that what CPO is? http://www.toyotacertified.com/certification.html

 

syncro detent ball, that's what I had heard from the very few other incidents recorded on the interweb (none on a Tacoma, however). I should also note that I definitely didn't pay a low price.. $19,500 sans warranty.. bah. The fact that the dealership is in Indiana and I'm in California doesn't help my situation, either. It isn't like I can show up there with the rig and say, "fix this." Though I am living in South Lake Tahoe for the summer and there is a Toyota Dealership here.. it'll just be a matter of convincing them to pay for it.

I'd be curious if there was some sort of 30 day warranty.. or anything that might save my ass. Appreciate all of your wisdom! Loving the forum, loving the truck, hating the dealer, and hating myself for turning down a warranty.

 

I may be wrong but I SWEAR there is some kind of warranty on used cars bought from the same name dealerships. Not sure if it is honored at any Toyota as with bought warranties.

I know it's different but when I bought my Lexus and I refused the offered "paid for" warranty, it did in fact have a 30 day one. And I am sure of that because I used it.

You might want to go over your signed agreement when you bought the truck. If you have one, it might even stipulate if it is honored at any Toyota. I would think that when they punch in your VIN it would say on their files that you have it. Doesn't hurt to look.

EDIT: You said CPO so I think you have warranty. He was probably trying to sell you an extended.

 

ok, this is helpful, thank you very much. I have one final question regarding this issue: If it turns out that Toyota will not cover any portion of this fix, would it make sense to get the tranny fixed at a Toyota Dealership or at a 3rd party tranny shop? I am assuming that the dealer will cost more, but perhaps they will provide warranty on the rebuilt transmission. Then again, maybe any transmission shop would provide that. I'm walking on new ground here so any input is helpful. Thanks again for all of your speedy replies!

 

agreed, theres a picture of that ball and spring and syncro all broken somewhere on TW

 

BabyT, that is actually a very popular myth. There also was a myth that you had 30 days to return a vehicle if you didn't like it, and they had to give you your money back on it. All of those are myths. HOWEVER, some places DO offer a 30 day warranty on used vehicles. This is based on the dealership itself, not Toyota. This is of course negated if it is a certified used vehicle with the appropriate warranty. The OP will need to check his paperwork to be sure.

When it comes to manual transmissions, the majority of the time it is more expensive to replace the unit as a whole than repair it. I know it may seem strange, but the individual parts prices can add up, because there is such a low demand, it forces the price of the individual parts higher. This results in a lower cost to the dealership, AND the customer to replace it as a unit. That being said, the only way to know for sure is to bite the bullet.

Call up a local dealer and ask them to quote you a replacement unit. Then, with that price in mind, take your truck in and have them disassemble it to find the failure. If the damage is minimal, and a simple synchro replacement works, then you already were prepared to replace the unit, so you just take care of it then. If the damage is more severe, then you already had in mind that you may need to replace the entire unit, so there you are, ready for that to be done. Plan for the worst, and hope for the best.

Doing a general look up for the cost (Take into account this is LIST price, and you will usually get a more substantial savings in the market) I found OEM pricing of a manual transmission for a 2wd Tacoma with the 4.0 to be about $3000. Then there is install, which book rate shows about 4 hours, so depending on your local labor rate, you can calculate from there.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Took the words right out of my mouth... detent.. they DO slip out from time to time

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Taco...yota|Model:Tacoma&hash=item2a26c4095b&vxp=mtr

 

Nice find right there. However not really what I would consider a "remanufactured" unit. A reman unit has been totally disassembled, had ALL bearing and bushings replaced, as well as all seals, and usually has all new synchros as well. Per the listing

"This is a Toyota RA60 6 Spd 4X4 Manual Transmission. It fits 2005-On Tacoma with 6 cyl engine. Unit that has been dis-assembled, inspected, cleaned and reassembled. Everything inside looks like brand new, and the trans passed the dyno spin-test after reassembly. We did replace syncro rings and 2nd and 3rd gears. It comes with a 6 month limited warranty. It is sold EXCHANGE, so please contact us before purchasing to finalize shipping details. " it says not only that everything inside LOOKS LIKE BRAND NEW then goes on to say they replaced syncros and 2nd and 3rd gears only. Also only has a 6 month warranty.

Not a bad investment really, and it may just well be a great unit, don't get me wrong. I just hate when people mislead you on ebay saying an item has been "remanufactured" when in actuality it has only been repaired.

 

I agree with the possibility of a syncro hub detent that would be about the right size but unless something is really trashed it would not move far enough to come out. Most likely the gear box has been apart before.

 

Ok, status update here:

After a long song and dance between the original Toyota dealer in Indiana and the Toyota dealer here in South Lake Tahoe, I was instructed to make a case with Toyota USA. Neither the S. Lake dealer nor Toyota USA could guarantee that Toyota would cover the repair costs--the dealer would need to drop the tranny and open it up and see what was going on before they could say anything. The Tacoma does have a 5 year 60k mile drive train warranty, given that my Taco has 71k miles that is kind of a mute point. However, because it is very close to being out of that warranty and was "certified" through a dealer, there is a chance that Toyota will help with some or all of the costs, if they feel so inclined.

I showed the metal ball to the service tech at the dealer shop here and he said he didn't know what it was, but that he was sure it wasn't a synchro detent ball. I call shenanigans on his assessment, but time will tell. I left the ball with them, so I don't have a picture to upload, but from what I've seen it is most certainly a synchro detent ball. Also, like someone had mentioned earlier, with a manual transmission, Toyota will like replace the entire transmission rather than rebuild because of the cost. I guess the double sided sword of having a car that "never" breaks is that the parts are more expensive due to a smaller demand.

So that's what I'm operating on here. Left the car with the dealer, they're going to open her up and see whats going on. In the meantime I'm praying for some luck and that Toyota USA will show me some love and prove to me that owning a Toyota is a good investment. I'll keep you all posted on what happens.

Cheers!

 

On the "service tech" who didn't know what it was, but that it wasn't a detent ball, I would ask him if he has ever disassembled a manual transmission before. I have. Dozens of them. And that size of a piece I can only describe as a detent ball, unless someone intentionally PUT it in the case.