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Old 09-12-2013, 06:18 PM   #1
lightower [OP] lightower is offline
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Thumbs down Dealership is lost and wants me to buy fairy dust intake

2012 Tacoma Trd double cab, 36km

- when going over road bumps i hear a rattling noise from the middle to front right suspension. Brought it in and they tightened the exhaust ? Obviously thats not the issue and would like to help these poor souls to fix the issue.
- other noise is hard to describe but is seems that at lower rpm i hear a similar sound of an empty spray can with mixer balls under the engine... Sounds exactly like poor shifting with a standard...they blamed my use of unleaded fuel(higher octane ..been using 87), then told me to buy STP fuel line cleaner .( I have an automatic )
- unrelated he told me to buy a KandH intake to improve performance since they can get a really good deal for one thats "specific " to the truck ... Since there are different models, but the one they get is the better one that houses the oxygen sensor-$420 plus tx installed.....fairy dust.

I called back and im booked again for Tuesday.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #2
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your "other noise".... read this thread.. are you hearing this?http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...-1500-rpm.html

P.S. the tacoma has a great already cold air intake stock.. thats alot of money for what I agree with you is fairy dust.

check your heat shields on your exhaust for rocks that can get caught and rattle around over bumps.. and come to think of it.. acceleration/ revving..
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #3
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whats your question?
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:25 PM   #4
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They are recommending leaded fuel?
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worthywads View Post
They are recommending leaded fuel?
Im guessing its a misunderstanding and they/ he meant 87 low octane..
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:30 PM   #6
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Beavis answered the intake...im answering backward. I'd agree that the sound you're hearing could be pre detonation (mixer balls) I have to use 91 or I get the same. . And the bump related sound could be steering or a number of usual spring slap sounds. I'd focus on finding out what the rattle in the suspension is and not worry about any of it too much.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worthywads View Post
They are recommending leaded fuel?
Can't run leaded fuel on the road. That stuff has been outlawed for years. I do agree that the OP should run a few tanks of higher octane fuel.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Can't run leaded fuel on the road. That stuff has been outlawed for years. I do agree that the OP should run a few tanks of higher octane fuel.
or better yet.. non ethanol!
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis0076 View Post
your "other noise".... read this thread.. are you hearing this?http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...-1500-rpm.html

P.S. the tacoma has a great already cold air intake stock.. thats alot of money for what I agree with you is fairy dust.

check your heat shields on your exhaust for rocks that can get caught and rattle around over bumps.. and come to think of it.. acceleration/ revving..
Thats the problem alright. So could be sparks,timing,new computer flash,...live with it and pay the higher cost for fuel. This has to be addressed by Toyota.
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:16 AM   #10
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Forget about the other issues, if your dealership is actually recommending you buy the K&N intake I'd go find another dealer.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:20 AM   #11
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I think I better start complaining and looking for another dealer.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:51 AM   #12
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You shouldn't have to run premium. The recommended fuel for our truck is 87. You could try changing gas stations. Perhaps you got some bad gas?

For those in the know, could it be a bad anti-knock sensor? The Tacoma is supposed to be able to retard the timing if it detects knock.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
You shouldn't have to run premium. The recommended fuel for our truck is 87. You could try changing gas stations. Perhaps you got some bad gas?

For those in the know, could it be a bad anti-knock sensor? The Tacoma is supposed to be able to retard the timing if it detects knock.

I believe it says reccomend 87 or higher.. 87 being the lesser of the reccomendation.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:21 AM   #15
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Picking another dealer isn't likely going to help. Search the forums on the ping/rattle in the engine and you'll see people from all over the United States (and I think a few from Canada) have been blown off by dealers. One poster mentioned a dealer was told by Toyota corporate to replace the heads. But that guy went MIA with no follow-up (lovely) from what I can tell.

At least 2 posters have been told (by dealer) that a 'fix' is coming in 2-3 months. One person posted that a day ago. Another person posted that...about 2-3 months ago. Yeah, Toyota is engaged in some serious smoke and mirrors B.S.

My theory - it's not something software will fix. There's probably a hardware component to it. Why? Most of the ping seems to come under light load for most people. Assume for a minute that you're coasting along at 45mph and get on the throttle a bit, at which time the ping kicks in. At coasting VVTi is busy doing it's best "Hey, I'm an EGR system, too!"-imitation. Once you get on the throttle lightly with a light load on the engine, VVTi is programmed to stop pretending to be something it's not and to alter it's behavior. This has been the case since 2005 with the Tacoma and the document about this is available on TIS under the 2005 "New Car Features" tab for the 2005 Tacoma.

So for several years, Tacomas played this game just fine (or so it seems, complaints seem to be most common in 2010 - 2013 models). Then something changed, and my bet is that something mechanical changed in a revised part for the VVTi system or something related to the VVTi system (oil control valves, the VVTi sensors, maybe a change in the oil passage that leads to the VVTi control valve).

So based on all the inputs the ECM takes, and all the commands it gives ("VVTi, stop slacking, be VVTi, not EGR! Spark plugs, fire earlier--no later--no earlier-no later--WAIT! Injectors, uhm...INJECT! Crank, what's your position? Cams, WTF are you? My paperwork says N-degrees, but you're at N+z degrees! WTFO?"), it can only balance the results of the hardware to a certain extent. Once a single part of the system is reporting in-spec, but functionally out of spec for the conditions, you get the ping.

Parts are going to have to get changed out. Maybe very expensive ones. You think Toyota wants to drop millions on that nonsense AGAIN? Do they really want Yet Another Black Eye, especially in something with a historical quality reputation like their smaller trucks? The whole reason MANY of us bought a 2nd gen Tacoma is because we came from 70's, 80's and 90's-era pre-Tacomas and 1st gen Tacomas. Sure they all had some issues, but There are THREE Toyota rigs in my family with >200,000 miles on the clock. An 84 pickup, an 83 pickup and a '98 4Runner (it's closer to 300k as I type, about 2000 miles shy of it). My 1st gen Tacoma (a '97) did 140k easy before I had to trade it (needed room, growing family). My 2004 again was solid (only had that one to 70k) until I had to once again trade up due to a growing family. Logical choice? Another Tacoma. Result? FAIL!

Toyota is going to lose reputation-based repeat sales en masse over something like that.

Also, FWIW - Toyota trucks are NOT the only ones with this problem. The Chrysler 3.6L Pentastar (Jeepers!) has issues beyond just the bad heads they have replaced. Some of them ping like this too. That engine also has a VVTi-type system playing EGR in the off hours. Nissan Frontiers? Some have the same problem. Folks with newer (2011+) Mazda CX-5's report PRECISELY the same type of noise under the same conditions in large #'s (no fix).

All the makers are trying to get every last bit of mechanical energy out of every last spritz of gasoline's chemical energy and they are pushing things to the ragged edge. In the process, they are updating and changing hardware (and software) to make this happen.

Sorry for the rant. I've been dealing with this since May of this year (16,400 on the truck today, actually -- problem first noticed around 10-11,000). 91 octane helps, but it's NOT a 'fix'.

As an experiment I put a tank of 87 in the truck yesterday (Shell, good stuff). The noises are worse and all over the power band (but still primarily in that 1500 rpm area). Prior to May 2013, I had only used Chevron, Shell or Valero 87 octane fuel. Nothing changed in May (on my part).

30 grand turd pile.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #16
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^ too many words.

also.. everyone is complaining.. but it seems your toyota POS is still running? and has not broken down? left you stranded? .... hmmm.. weird.

quick question...
have you tried running a few tanks of non ethinol?
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis0076 View Post
I believe it says reccomend 87 or higher.. 87 being the lesser of the reccomendation.
It's still recommended. It should run fine on it. You can always put premium in a vehicle that doesn't need it.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
It's still recommended. It should run fine on it. You can always put premium in a vehicle that doesn't need it.

yea, I get that.. but its like buying cheap oil.. or cheap tires.. yea, they will work.. but will they work as long and as well?

technically they are running fine on it.. as no one has had a single problem other than noise.. how long they will run fine is the key question.
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis0076 View Post
^ too many words.

also.. everyone is complaining.. but it seems your toyota POS is still running? and has not broken down? left you stranded? .... hmmm.. weird.

quick question...
have you tried running a few tanks of non ethinol?
No, it hasn't left me stranded. When I'm out in the middle of Nevada later this month, 100+ miles from pavement, I'll keep hoping it doesn't leave me stranded. If it does...it's going to be a long, miserable walk.

No non-ethanol gasoline available in my area (according to the sites that track such things).

Sorry for 'too many words'. It was a rant. Someday, some poor sap with the same problem may come along and read it and figure something out. Or he might go "WTF?" and go to the next post.
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis0076 View Post
yea, I get that.. but its like buying cheap oil.. or cheap tires.. yea, they will work.. but will they work as long and as well?

technically they are running fine on it.. as no one has had a single problem other than noise.. how long they will run fine is the key question.
Well, it's running. Whether it's running "fine" is a different animal. Slowly killing your engine is still killing it.

For what it's worth, it's an issue in the 2GR-FE motor as well (RAV4's).
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