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Spongy Brake Pedal ?

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Old 01-15-2014, 04:57 PM   #1
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Spongy Brake Pedal ?

I replaced the front pads on my 2007 Taco today. I noticed on testing the brakes that they worked fine but they felt spongy. As a comparison I went to the wife's Prius. They were worse. Back in the old days if one pumped the brake pedal and held it (if the brakes were good) the pedal would stop mid travel and hold like a rock. Both my truck and the Prius , if I hold the brake down, eventually the pedal will go to the floor. Is this common for newer vehicles?

I tried bleeding the brakes and it didn't seem to make a difference. I couldn't find any air in the lines and I don't see any leaks. What's up?

Randy
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:02 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyjaco View Post
I replaced the front pads on my 2007 Taco today. I noticed on testing the brakes that they worked fine but they felt spongy. As a comparison I went to the wife's Prius. They were worse. Back in the old days if one pumped the brake pedal and held it (if the brakes were good) the pedal would stop mid travel and hold like a rock. Both my truck and the Prius , if I hold the brake down, eventually the pedal will go to the floor. Is this common for newer vehicles?

I tried bleeding the brakes and it didn't seem to make a difference. I couldn't find any air in the lines and I don't see any leaks. What's up?

Randy

If your pedal creeps to the floor you could have a bad seal in your master cylinder... But I find it hard to believe that it would happen to both the Prius and taco at the same time. How did u bleed the brakes?
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Styx586 View Post
If your pedal creeps to the floor you could have a bad seal in your master cylinder... But I find it hard to believe that it would happen to both the Prius and taco at the same time. How did u bleed the brakes?
x2

When i replaced my front brakes and rotors, i removed my calipers to paint them. I had to bleed the shit out of my brakes, i made a topic here and asked if i needed to do the front or backs first, they said the backs then the fronts. With the assistance of my buddy we got it done but it took awhile. My truck did the same thing, it sounds like you need to bleed them better. 3 pumps and hold, repeat till whoever is under there sees a solid stream of fluid coming out
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:42 PM   #4
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Yea if you bled your brakes properly you should have a nice firm pedal... If your doing it by yourself you need a vacuum bleeder or pressure bleeder. I think the easiest way is with a friend. Make sure the person holding the pedal doesn't let up until you have fully closed off the bleeder screw. Start at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and work towards the one closest. I.e. Rear passenger side, rear driver, front passenger, front driver. And like ^^^he said keep going until you see no more air in the line.
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:41 AM   #5
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I did it the old fashion way, having someone pump the brakes and hold while I let the fluid out from each wheel. I didn't see or hear any air in the line.

The Prius has never had any brake work done.

As I said before, I am not seeing any evidence of leakage anywhere on the system. I am also amazed that I would get air in the system by doing a pad change. At that point I had never touched the hydraulic system? The air must have been there from the get go.

Randy
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:46 AM   #6
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People talk about the Tacoma brake pedal being soft quite a bit, do you think it's possible you're just more in tune to what it felt like, since you just did a brake job? My truck requires more effort on the pedal to stop than some of my previous cars, and it's been a common theme for all our Toyotas. Maybe you really don't have a problem at all?

Just doing a pad change shouldn't require a bleeding of the brakes, you're right.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:14 AM   #7
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I did the front and rears 2 weeks ago, pad was horribly soft. Bled the brakes doing the circle around method.

Right Front, Right Rear, Left Rear, Left Front. REPEAT. I was also doing this to get old fluid out.

Brake fluid absorbs water and degrades over time thats why pedal feels soft even with new pads. Just bleed bleed bleed.

I did this and my soft pedal went to a good solid firm pedal!!!!!
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:43 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the responses guys. I will keep bleeding. The air or whatever must be further up the lines.

Now I am concerned about the Prius

Randy
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:04 PM   #9
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VW used to recommend changing brake fluid every two years, and running 500ml through each wheel cylinder in the specified sequence. Instead of making two passes at bleeding, I'd recommend one circuit, with 500ml per cylinder. It's possible that some air is trapped in the ABS pump or some other spot that requires more fluid to fully remove it from the system, and doing less will only move the air around the system instead of removing it.

Also, is there a specific process in the factory service manual for bleeding the ABS pump? Some vehicles require activating the pump to completely purge old fluid and/or air from the pump. I don't have access to the FSM, but it may be worth checking before another round of bleeding.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:42 AM   #10
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Hydraulic fluid is not supposed to compress

If it is broken down, discolored, absorbed moisture or other contaminants, then it will compress, and not push on the pistons as hard as new fluid would

higher temperatures will aslo cause the fluid to compress. the back of the bottle of fluid will have a dry boiling point and a humid/contaminated boiling point. not all dot 4's have the same temps

Just stop and go traffic, or one hard stop from high speed will cause the fluid temperature to spike almost immediately.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:29 PM   #11
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I had the exact same problem for the last six months. Tried everything to no avail. Finally figured it out today (with some help) after it happened getting off the freeway and I almost blew through a busy intersection, it will get worse. For details see my post in "recommendations for mods to tow with a gen 1 taco" hope that answers some questions.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyjaco View Post
I did it the old fashion way, having someone pump the brakes and hold while I let the fluid out from each wheel. I didn't see or hear any air in the line.

The Prius has never had any brake work done.

As I said before, I am not seeing any evidence of leakage anywhere on the system. I am also amazed that I would get air in the system by doing a pad change. At that point I had never touched the hydraulic system? The air must have been there from the get go.

Randy
The only way air could get into the brake lines while changing is if you had the reservior open and it was low, then you pumped the brake and it ran out of fluid. Otherwise, there isn't anywhere else for air to get into the hydraulic system.

The pedal should not go to the floor. Typically, when you push the caliper pistons in to make room for the new pads, the pedal will push further down until the piston meets the new brake pads. Once you've pumped it a few times it should be nice and firm.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:58 AM   #13
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My wife has a 2013 Camry Hybrid and I HATE the brakes. The car uses regenerative braking (Like the Prius) and it just works differently than traditional brakes. I never drove the car in the test drive since it would be my wife's car, but I never would have bought it because of the brakes.

They are not so much squishy, it just seems to require much more foot effort to stop the car and sometimes it feels like they won't engage (especially when I need them fast).
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moondeath View Post
The only way air could get into the brake lines while changing is if you had the reservior open and it was low, then you pumped the brake and it ran out of fluid. Otherwise, there isn't anywhere else for air to get into the hydraulic system.

The pedal should not go to the floor. Typically, when you push the caliper pistons in to make room for the new pads, the pedal will push further down until the piston meets the new brake pads. Once you've pumped it a few times it should be nice and firm.
He said he bleed the brakes. That process in itself can allow air in.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03is300ztk View Post
He said he bleed the brakes. That process in itself can allow air in.
He said he tried bleeding them after the fact. My original point however, is changing your brakes will not cause air to get into the line.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:18 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moondeath View Post
He said he tried bleeding them after the fact. My original point however, is changing your brakes will not cause air to get into the line.
Correct(but you quoted a post about bleeding) but it seems that he has an issue beyond just the pad change so no need to hang up on it. Like was said before could be a seal because it's a slow creep to the floor. It doesn't just bottom out fro first press.

OP any update?
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:36 AM   #17
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I haven't done anything else to it. I didn't want to risk screwing up the skid control system. It seems to stop properly and hasn't gotten any worse. It just isn't a rock hard break pedal.

Randy
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyjaco View Post
I haven't done anything else to it. I didn't want to risk screwing up the skid control system. It seems to stop properly and hasn't gotten any worse. It just isn't a rock hard break pedal.

Randy
So when the truck is running, while not moving, and you apply steady pressure to the pedal, does it go to the floor or just feel 'squishy'?
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:35 AM   #19
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Are you saying..... your brakes were NOT spongy before you changed the pads?

Who changed the pads? Did anyone disconnect the brake lines when changing the pads?

If this truck is NEW to you.... and you're just not used to how the Toyota brakes feel, this could be normal.

My trucks brakes are 'soft' (I'll call them soft) compared to my Husbands Acura. Every time I drive his MDX and I apply the brakes, I just about send myself thru the windshield. His brakes are 'touchy and every little input is strong almost immediate.

Having this 'soft' nature - isn't necessarily a bad thing. My husbands rotors were warped after about 3 years. In all the Toyota's I've ever owned (4?), I've never had rotors that warped.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
Are you saying..... your brakes were NOT spongy before you changed the pads?

Who changed the pads? Did anyone disconnect the brake lines when changing the pads?

If this truck is NEW to you.... and you're just not used to how the Toyota brakes feel, this could be normal.

My trucks brakes are 'soft' (I'll call them soft) compared to my Husbands Acura. Every time I drive his MDX and I apply the brakes, I just about send myself thru the windshield. His brakes are 'touchy and every little input is strong almost immediate.

Having this 'soft' nature - isn't necessarily a bad thing. My husbands rotors were warped after about 3 years. In all the Toyota's I've ever owned (4?), I've never had rotors that warped.
Wrong. Not all toyotas are soft pedal feeling.

And please go back through and real all comments before asking pretty much every question that's already been asked.
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