Ethanol

I see a lot of people concerned about oil type, but gas type is also important.
http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
Here is some reasons NOT to use ethanol.
http://smarterfuelfuture.org/impacts/vehicles-and-small-engines?gclid=CLverc6gr7oCFU9o7AodI0cAfg
I have two 53 gallon tanks I put into a trailer or just several 5 gallon cans in the back of my pickup depending on how much I need. I have to drive around 75 miles one way, but it is well worth it to keep my vehicles and small engines running properly. I have 3 vehicles, one Ford pickup and two Toyotas, a Corolla and a Tacoma and my Ford has around 400,000 miles on it. I expect the same from my Toyotas. Also I get better MPG with the pure gas. The law limits you to hauling a maximum of 119 gallon at a time without a permit.

Here is a place where you can find pure gas in your state if interested.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

 

i wish i had one near me. theyre all out of my way. WAY out of my way.

 

Thanks for the links. Wish Oregon had more non ethanol stations.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to run alcohol in vehicles made to run gas should be beat with a stick.

 

here in Maryland non Ethanol gas stations are common because its terrible on our boat motors and carburetors, you just get to pay 25cents more a Gallon!

 

respectfully to all the naysayers in here, Ethanol can work quite well for vehicles when used properly, it can allow you to produce more power, more SAFE power, costs considerably less than traditional fuels, and is often sustainable (although the US doesn't do a very good job at this part) - as someone who has been building and racing cars for a long time, I started using purely e85 for my race purposes in 2004 and have never since looked back.

The reason your fuel mileage goes down is because it requires more fuel to attain a specific AFR, it's not because the fuel is bad, just because it burns differently.

What I would tell you is to not just jump on the anti ethanol bandwagon without truly doing some research - if pump grade ethanol from my local e85 station was good enough to power a 10:1 42psi 1000hp supra and DAILY drive it it is more than good enough to power your tacoma.

I fully concede though that pure fuel non ethanol based would be better for a vehicle that is not tuned for ethanol. If the tacoma had a flex fuel sensor and a dynamic map for ethanol content you could get much safer and higher quality tunes on ethanol than you could on pump 89.

Ethanol is particularly friendly with turbo vehicles because it has a higher burn rate which means it produces more exhaust which means it spools turbos earlier, it also burns cooler which helps keep engine temps down, just ask the GTR road race guys who couldn't keep their cars cool but after switching to ethanol no such problem...

my point is just that it's not all bad.

 

problem is the gov't forced ethanol on us long before most equipment was ready to handle it. Ethanol use is also directly responsible for the big increase in corn and food prices. Post something like this on any boating or fishing forum and you will get run out of town. Ethanol works for you because you have set up your equipment to handle it.

 

The problem is that the studies do not agree with you. Here is a link.
http://smarterfuelfuture.org/impacts/vehicles-and-small-engines

 

x2. While I will agree that it's not all bad, it's hell on any of my small engines. In order to make my lawn mower, snow blower, string trimmer, chain saw or motorcycle run right and not have the carbs gum up any time they sit for more than a week, I've resorted to fuel additives. They do OK but I eventually end up reworking the carbs much more frequently than I used to with non-ethanol gas. For vehicles, I haven't had any issues with the ethanol so far.

 

You can't actually think that is a reliable study? That is a lobbyist group probably for oil companies.

Having built MANY cars that ran exclusively on ethanol, all of which BTW passed smog testing WITH NO CATALYTIC converters, I can tell you that page is a bunch of horse hockey.

If you take ethanol and you put it in a 91 corolla you MAY see issues, but the reason for that has nothing to do with it CORRODING anything, ethanol is not acidic in nature. however what it WILL do is clean all the carbon gunk left by years and years of crappy fuel usage - which often will lead to clogged injectors.

I really don't need to convince anyone, but my story is not annecdotal, I have raced my cars from Road race, to Mile/half mile events to quarter mile exclusively on ethanol. My supra had 166k miles on it, I converted it to ethanol at 130k miles, it was a 1997, and had NO issues. In fact I have gone as far as to use e98 and aside from the additional smell of corn, it also had NO ill effects. My motors burned cleaner, did not leave carbon deposits, they ran cooler, and when compared to the cost of race fuel was 1/10th the cost per gallon while producing similar or better power - AND when compared to pump 93 octane made 2x the power possible on just e80

What I am telling you is that *IF* Toyota were to treat ethanol properly in the tuning of their vehicles they could produce more power and do it reliably without endangering motors.

That whole web page is full of obvious statements about ethanol... Yes ethanol DOES effect your mileage, however because ethanol is cheaper it costs less - Yes ethanol contains less energy requiring more burn to produce power, but what it doesn't say is that it burns CLEANER, more complete AND cooler than regular petrol

YES ethanol is hygroscopic - it CAN Attract water, particularly in high humidity environments, however when it is SEALED in a tank or a properly used fuel drum there is no water for it to collect.

the ONE and only consideration I have given to ethanol was when I was parking my vehicles for more than a month, then I did choose to pickle the fuel system with regular fuel or in some cases I pulled my injectors and soaked them in WD40 - However I did this because they were very very high performance cars with very agressive tunes - this would not be necessary on a street car.

NOW - with all of that said I will agree, in a daily driven street car or truck like the tacoma where there is NO mechanism to adjust fueling parameters based on ethanol, or timing parameters - there is little to NO value in ethanol - it does burn cleaner and lowers smog emissions, but unless the vehicle manufacturers fall in line ALSO all the government mandate is causing is you and I having to fill up more often because it's not worth Toyota's time, and they have no incentive to tune specifically for ethanol.

I can tell you from hundreds of thousands of miles that when a car is tuned properly for ethanol use the overall mileage goes down VERY little, I could STILL see over 26mpg on the high on my supra, and that was with 2150cc injectors, 3 fuel pumps and 1000hp on tap. But it's because we spent a LOT of time and effort tuning that car to be daily drivable and still deliver real world reasonable results on ethanol - If toyota were to put in the same effort you could see a solid 2-3mpg bump just like you do when you find a non ethanol station.

I would bet 20$ that not a single person who owns or operates that site you linked has ever used ethanol beyond just bitching about it at the pump and how it is taking profits out of big oils pockets.

 

I have several near me right in town that sell no ethanol premium. One of them even sells ethanol free 87, 89, and 91

 

I don't disagree with any of that... there are much bigger political issues to ethanol than can be encompassed in a simple statement - you hit the nail on the head though and Toyota or ANY OTHER manufacturer COULD prepare their vehicles to work properly with ethanol and get GREAT results out of it. Ethanol isn't going away, there are entire markets where ethanol is a full 80% of fuel use

I won't deny any of the ill effects politically or socially with ethanol, I realize it has lead to food prices going up (or certainly as an excuse to raise them) I realize it requires billions in subsidies to make viable for the US at the moment - all of that is no bueno.

All I'm saying is don't besmirch the value that ethanol CAN provide when it is used properly... I fully acknowledge that FEW manufacturers care enough to bother... There are some cars that have had specific ethanol tunes with great results.. Saab had an ethanol sensor and tune on their final model of the 9-3 Aero, made 50more hp and 90 more tq than the fuel tune did and got the same mileage, Bentley provides an ethanol sensor and tune on their cars from 2010 and up - GM provides flex fuel capability for nearly every car they produce - although to be fair GM does a horrible job of TUNING Those cars for flex fuel, it's more like they just allow it, not actually utilize it.

 

I don't think Ethanol is taking money out of big oil's pockets. I think it is the opposite. It allows them to add Ethanol to gasoline production but charging gasoline prices. Ethanol won't lower fuel prices even though the government tries to sell the american people on it.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I hate that d*%$! ethanol but the gooberment knows what's best for us. /sarc

 

The problem is all of the cars I've ever owned and own now have been and are designed to run on gasoline, not alcohol. That means they run best on pure gasoline, that's how they are designed to make power. Unless someone wants to say Honda and Toyota don't know as much about engines as the government.

No problem with ethanol when used in engines made for it, like the old Cart cars. But do not put it in my engine made for gas and expect anything but lower gas mileage and water entering the system easier.

 

I have a lawn business on the side. And I own a motorcycle and a boat. There is no ethanol free gas around Austin so I have to rebuild carbs every couple of years and change out fuel line hoses. Thanks to our government.

 

This doesn't make sense to me. If more fuel is added, then the AFR is being changed because it now contains *more fuel.* Right? Or does ethanol add oxygen, causing the same quantities of air and fuel to become a lean mixture, which requires more fuel to reach the correct AFR? (Maybe it should be called oxygen:fuel ratio, OFR.) I always thought that my fuel mileage goes down with ethanol because it has less energy content per volume.

True. Ethanol actually does help to produce lower emissions *at the tailpipe.* But what about the extra emissions created during the mass distribution of ethanol to virtually every corner pump in America? Construction of the ethanol-specific equipment, specialized delivery vehicles, added complexity of the overall fuel industry to incorporate this "eco-friendly" product? Sounds like a great idea on paper but a FAIL in reality. Also, higher cost at the pump and getting fewer MPGs is not good in anyone's book, especially when we aren't given a choice about it. The product was rushed to the mass market and shoved down everyone's throat without adequate research and testing. How about ethanol's effect on motorcycles and other small engines? No testing, period. (The AMA is constantly sending out ethanol warnings for motorcycle owners.) Is there any protection or recourse offered to owners of "older" vehicles with components vulnerable to the oxidizing effect of ethanol? Nope, sorry pal.

 

Well I will have to disagree on some of this its pretty simple if you look at the BTU content of gas vs ethanol that tells you everything you need to know. Lower BTU content less power and mileage simple as that. Not only that it is a net loss to make the ethanol because of the power involved if it wasn't for gov subsidies they wouldn't be able sell it at a price anybody would pay. Not only that even if you used all the available farm land to make corn you wouldn't put a dent in the daily usage of gasoline and now the EPA is concerned about all the fertilizer being used causing problems in our water supplies and in the gulf of mexico where it all ends up.

Just for grins I looked up the BTU content of different fuels
Regular Gasoline = 114,100 BTU
Diesel #2 = 129,500 BTU
E85 = 81,800 BTU
So E85 is significantly lower which equals less by about %30

 

Its the crazy people thinking that by adding Ethanol they can fight Global Warming...
pure-gas.org has 5 stations now listed in my state with pure gas so take ethanol and shove it...

vrooom vroom

 

HELL NO!

Well the E15 blend..OK.

The E85 blend (85% ethanol) is GREAT for tuner cars...108'ish effective octane rating, street legal, 'green', race fuel! Yes you need to run about 20% more fuel but you can run so much more boost and make so much more power.

So saying ALL ethanol is bad isn't true...it's good sometimes!