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Arbitration didn't go well..........

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Old 08-04-2014, 10:19 PM   #1
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Arbitration didn't go well..........

We purchased the Tacoma (22 miles) the end of March 2014. Noticed vibrations at highway speeds, been back to the dealer 7+ time (they only documented 5). The dealer aired the tires, balanced the tires, balanced them again, road force balanced them twice and tried a different set of wheels and tires.

On our own, we had the tires replaced, driveshaft balnced/trued and a host of other adjustments and tweaks.. nothing changed the vibration felt in the cab, floor, doors and seats.
Toyota calls it a characteristic, they also call the slow speed shudder the same thing, a characteristic, only there is no "fix" for the high speed vibration.

Anyway, back and forth with the dealer (Toyota of Murfreesboro, TN.), then back and forth with Toyota Corp, no satisfaction and they both were terrible to deal with. Close to 1,000 miles driving back and forth to the dealer and mechanics/specialists.

On to dealing with NCDS (National Center for Dispute Settlements) to gather information and schedule the arbitration. The hearing was held at the selling dealer, Toyota sent a regional GM, Dirk Hammersmith. The dealer had their service manager sit in as well. We documented every phone call, email and visit to anybody regarding the truck, we thought we were well prepared. Dirk spent most of his time stating how all manufactures build thousands of vehicles every year and they all have different "characteristics", some are addressed/fixed, some are within engineered specifications and left as is.

He then spent several minutes discrediting a Toyota service manager that sent me an email stating the vibration is a known issue and there is no fix for it according to Toyota. And another service Toyota service tech that "really wasn't sure what kind of vibration I was referring to", even though he accompanied me on several test drives during this process.

We received the "verdict" today, our claim was denied... seems that everybody is in agreement with Toyota. as long as nobody calls the vibration a problem/issue/manufacturing defect and DOES call it a characteristic, it's totally acceptable!

I've talked to a couple of local Tacoma owners, they have felt the high speed (45/75mph) too. The dealer told them, after re balancing the tires a couple times.. that the tires are not the greatest, difficult to get perfectly balanced. The dealer told them to run the tires till it's time to replace them, a new set of will smooth everything out.

Anybody else experiencing any vibrations at 45 mph and then intensifies around 75 mph?

******************* Update****************************

Trying to find an attorney (we contacted over 40 firms) that is willing to take a LL case in TN is a huge waste of time. Apparently TN is pro business, not pro consumer (or pro employee either) so the odds of winning this type of case is not good. The attorney also informed me that Toyota will drag the process out, for years in some cases and the consumer usually gives up and the firm gets nothing (fee reversal, no win-no pay) such is the world of big business.

We have tried new tires, different wheels and tires, balancing and truing the 2 piece drive shaft and installing a custom made 1 piece aluminum drive shaft too. The tires have all been road forced balanced with the proper adapters and equipment.

The TSB for low speed vibration was installed (mine did not have it, but in some cases the mid speed vibe was eliminated) and caused it to vibrate at around 25mph. The dealer re-installed the original springs. and most of the low speed vibration is gone..

The vibration at 45 mph and the high speed vibration 70 mph on up past 80 mph remains.

I am taking it to a different Toyota dealer Monday, he does know the history and has spoken to the Toyota field service tech that originally ruled that this vibration is a characteristic of the truck. So he's not really sure if they can help either, not unless they feel it's unreasonably bad.

The other approach we are going to take is speaking with the lender, maybe they'll do something... I don't know.

Everyplace I take it, tire store, alignment shop, transmission shop, suspension shop... they all say it's a good looking truck, then they go for a ride and the vibrations start, then it's they say "this is a damn shame, I can't believe Toyota is telling you this is normal for a Tacoma to shake like this!" So it' not just me that's taken back by Toyota's decision to call it a characteristic.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:10 AM   #2
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I've had the 45 mph vibe since new
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:27 AM   #3
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I had this problem as well.
Part of it was tires but not all of it.
After many trips to the dealer they finally sent the drive shaft off to be balanced.
Helped a lot but it is still there just a wee bit. But only half the time. When the tires are rotated it goes away. So one set not sure which when it is moved to the front or the back makes it better or worse.
Good luck
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:28 AM   #4
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Have not noticed this with mine.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:46 AM   #5
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I've got a 50 mph hop that has been there since new. Tires are different, wheels are different, still the vibe. I think in my case it's the drive shaft. When I load it tail heavy the vibes lower in speed from 50 to like 45 40 depending on the load. So that tells me it is indeed the drive shaft on my truck, the angles change and so does the vibration.
Keep us posted.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdthiker View Post
I had this problem as well.
Surprised that regular cabs can have this problem as well.

Thought only it was an Access or Double cab problem because of the double drive shaft and carrier bearing.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:26 AM   #8
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Unfortunately nobody wins a dispute like this except the lawyer. One thing to remember. These vehicles are mass produced and there is no such thing as perfect.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:54 AM   #9
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keep us informed.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:56 AM   #10
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What is your hoped for resolution?
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:48 AM   #11
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Welcome to TW!!
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:41 AM   #12
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealkas View Post
What is your hoped for resolution?

Curious as well.


Ive heard about the vibration since I joined back in 2008... I got wheel shake around 60mph... my current 06 Tundra has wheel shake at 60mph also... annoying? Yes. Worth blowing money on a lawyer? not a chance in hell.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:55 AM   #14
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"Sanity is too important to let reality get in the way !"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmooze View Post
Would your money not be better spent on new tires, instead of a lawyer?

At this point I'd either live with it and not be happy, or trade it in for another vehicle. The loss during the trade should be less than the Lawyer's fees and you have an immediate fix.

Sanity has it's price.


Canufixit

"Sanity is too important to let reality get in the way !"
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:59 AM   #15
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Was the unacceptable vibration not addressed at the time of purchase?

I would only assume this issue would have been discovered during the test drive.
There are a number of FJ owners that have vibration issues at the 55 mph to 60 mph range but it goes away. One solution is to change a spring in the steering that stiffens up the feel but helps eliminate the vibration sensation.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:01 AM   #16
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Was the TSB 0008-14 done? or is this too new a '14 for it to apply? Not all vibs are 'normal' but some may be. I get a slight vibe at 40-ish and feel the 20mph vibe under certain conditions.....on other forums reported that other vib's were helped with the tsb was installed....
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterdog View Post
Was the unacceptable vibration not addressed at the time of purchase?

I would only assume this issue would have been discovered during the test drive.
There are a number of FJ owners that have vibration issues at the 55 mph to 60 mph range but it goes away. One solution is to change a spring in the steering that stiffens up the feel but helps eliminate the vibration sensation.

Are you referring to the steering intermediate shaft?? I think there was a TCB for replacement with an updated part for previous models??
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:10 AM   #18
It's $10 for a BJ, $12 for an HJ, $15 for a ZJ...
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Have you asked to drive another similar truck from the dealer and try to recreate the problem you're having in your truck? This way you have a better leg to stand on if it truly is your truck that is the issue.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:14 AM   #19
DCLBFTMFW ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canufixit View Post
At this point I'd either live with it and not be happy, or trade it in for another vehicle. The loss during the trade should be less than the Lawyer's fees and you have an immediate fix.

Sanity has it's price.


Canufixit

"Sanity is too important to let reality get in the way !"
Sounds like a winner to me.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:16 AM   #20
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You need to do a cost/benefit analysis here. What's the best case scenario? Toyota takes the truck back and gives you a complete refund, or gives you a new truck that is likely going to have the same vibration? Will that make up for all the time you'll spend and the exorbitant amount of money a lawyer is going to cost you? You'd probably be much better off just trading the vehicle in and taking a loss if it bothers you that much.

I'm not trying to downplay the situation. I've been there before in different circumstances and I can certainly sympathize, but sometimes it's easier to cut your losses and move on.
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