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Loose lug nuts on aluminum wheels?

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Old 12-24-2014, 08:47 AM   #1
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Loose lug nuts on aluminum wheels?

I recently bought 4 of the FJ Aluminum wheels on CL.

Seller was a squared away guy and he gave me the correct (washer style) lug nuts.

I had the tires remounted on the FJ wheels, and 100 miles later I re torqued the lug nuts to 83 f/lb (with a borrowed wrench). All were maybe 1/8 turn loose at that time.

No big deal, I figured that was it.

I've been checking them once a week for the past month and every time, at least 4 of the 6 nuts on each wheel are loose, always about the same 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn. This is after only about 200 - 500 miles each time.

The lugs are the correct length (I can get a nut 10 full turns before it begins to tighten against the wheel) and the nuts are correct for the wheels (I think, from the research I did). There is no damage to the wheels that I can see and no excessive dirt or corrosion that would impair the ability of the wheels to correctly seat.

Is this normal for these style wheels, or is this a problem? I've never had steel wheels loosen except maybe the first time, after that, the lug nuts never budge. It's getting annoying and I wonder how they will hold up when I go out west this coming year, thousands of miles.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:52 AM   #2
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i always torque aluminum to bout 110 or so
i feel like anything under a 100 is asking for issues
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:54 AM   #3
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I wouldn't call it abnormal, I have alloys with the washered acorn nuts, whenever I do my rotations every 5 to 7,000, there always seems to be a slightly looser nut here and there..I have recently got to checking the nuts occassionaly, especially if I am taking a long trip....

having it come loose every 500 miles, that is extreme...as the previous poster stated more torque will help I usually do 95fp, I don't want to stress the aluminum alloy, it has its limitations....

how about a picture of one of the nuts and a pic of the wheel hole, just for reference purposes...maybe some steelie nuts where used accidently at one time, might have done a slight bevel or ridge to da hole...
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:22 AM   #4
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83 should be more than enough to hold. Can you take pictures of the lugs and wheel?
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:38 AM   #5
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Mine are torqued to 115.
The torque spec for my civic wheels is 89, and it's a smaller stud.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:41 AM   #6
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Always check torque specs for a few days, up to about a week after install, to make sure they don't back off.
Common practice.

/thread
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:53 AM   #7
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more torque than recommended is NOT the way to go

-all new Toyota OEM nuts- throw old ones away they have been abused

remove wheels

clean stud threads with wire brush and alcohol, dry it

torque to 85 foot lbs using new 24 new lug nuts

problem solved
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
more torque than recommended is NOT the way to go

-all new Toyota OEM nuts- throw old ones away they have been abused

remove wheels

clean stud threads with wire brush and alcohol, dry it

torque to 85 foot lbs using new 24 new lug nuts

problem solved
Agreed. Over torque can cause vibration problems or other grief. Costco over torqued the crap out of my wheels recently and I shook on the way home. Before I took it back for a re-balance, I checked the torque and it was way off. I re torqued to spec and it was all good.
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
more torque than recommended is NOT the way to go

-all new Toyota OEM nuts- throw old ones away they have been abused

remove wheels

clean stud threads with wire brush and alcohol, dry it

torque to 85 foot lbs using new 24 new lug nuts

problem solved

Finally someone posted logical info. MY goodness why are people torque aluminum rims to 100 ft-lbs? Torque then to factory specs in a torque sequence. More isn't better.
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:46 AM   #10
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You should torque them in a cross pattern in stages.

First torque go half the torque, cross pattern.
Second stage go the full torque, cross pattern.
Then on the final torque go in a circular pattern to full torque.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:55 PM   #11
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I will post pics tomorrow. Thanks for the responses.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:04 PM   #12
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Lock tight.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
more torque than recommended is NOT the way to go

-all new Toyota OEM nuts- throw old ones away they have been abused

remove wheels

clean stud threads with wire brush and alcohol, dry it

torque to 85 foot lbs using new 24 new lug nuts

problem solved
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelf Life View Post
Agreed. Over torque can cause vibration problems or other grief. Costco over torqued the crap out of my wheels recently and I shook on the way home. Before I took it back for a re-balance, I checked the torque and it was way off. I re torqued to spec and it was all good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
Finally someone posted logical info. MY goodness why are people torque aluminum rims to 100 ft-lbs? Torque then to factory specs in a torque sequence. More isn't better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyh View Post
You should torque them in a cross pattern in stages.

First torque go half the torque, cross pattern.
Second stage go the full torque, cross pattern.
Then on the final torque go in a circular pattern to full torque.
All these guys are giving advice that should be followed.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by maineah View Post
Lock tight.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyh View Post
You should torque them in a cross pattern in stages.

First torque go half the torque, cross pattern.
Second stage go the full torque, cross pattern.
Then on the final torque go in a circular pattern to full torque.
Get out of my head.

Btw, excellent torque wrenches to be found here, and available at fair prices.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:50 PM   #16
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Maybe try indexing all the lug nuts on one wheel with crayon or white out.
That way you can tell if the lug nuts are actually turning loose or something else is going on.
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Old 12-25-2014, 11:31 AM   #17
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Here's a picture of the lug nut and the stud and surrounding wheel.

Thanks for the advice.

I believe my first move will be to buy a torque wrench (I can't believe I've put off doing that for....mmm...20 years...?). Retorque one wheel and mark the lugs, recheck in a week. If it doesn't move then I'll just retorque the others; if it does move I'll buy new OEM lug nuts, dismount, and clean the mating surfaces and studs.

Any other thoughts from the photos?



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Old 12-26-2014, 05:58 AM   #18
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"I believe my first move will be to buy a torque wrench"

OMG...

Your wheels look fine, clean everything, reassemble, and wait on the lug nut replacement, your nuts look OK, LOL, can't believe I said that...

Good grief on the torque wrench, okay not to have with steelies, but mandatory with alloys...
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah View Post
If it doesn't move then I'll just retorque the others; if it does move ...
What the hell. It's not a frikken scientific experiment. You think that some Toyota engineer is watching this thread and thinking, "Gee I hope these guys figure out how to mount a wheel. We can't figure it out." There is a proper procedure with the proper tools and parts.

Is this thread going to turn out like that one zillion page thread about a vibration?
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:41 AM   #20
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You need a torque wrench - plain & simple. I've torqued my lugs at 100ft lbs on all my vehicles and never had any issues. I also use anti-seize.

You inherited USED lug nuts. I would highly recommend buying NEW lug nuts and go from there..... If you're still having problems, I would inspect the lugs themselves. If the threads (on lugs or lug nuts) are worn, they won't hold.

Over torquing lug nuts can cause your rotors to warp and probably not good on the lugs/threads either.
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