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WHO DID NOT PAY "TDA" on their Invoice purchase?

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Old 11-20-2007, 05:41 AM   #1
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Question WHO DID NOT PAY "TDA" on their Invoice purchase?

There seems to be many scholars out there on what are LEGIT' charges and what bogus dealer add-ons. Can we get some kind of tally and feed back on who DID NOT pay the infamous, "TDA" charges when you all bought that shiny Tacoma on a so-called, "INVOICE PRICE" purchases?

If anyone did not pay, what kind of "line or lines (reasoning, I mean)" did you use to avoid such RIP OFFs ??

I am torn as I have been offered an INVOICE price + TDA + Holdback + Wholesale Financing Resr.
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:17 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khfactor View Post
There seems to be many scholars out there on what are LEGIT' charges and what bogus dealer add-ons. Can we get some kind of tally and feed back on who DID NOT pay the infamous, "TDA" charges when you all bought that shiny Tacoma on a so-called, "INVOICE PRICE" purchases?

If anyone did not pay, what kind of "line or lines (reasoning, I mean)" did you use to avoid such RIP OFFs ??

I am torn as I have been offered an INVOICE price + TDA + Holdback + Wholesale Financing Resr.
You can't go into a dealer wanting to leave with a new truck or you need to plan on getting screwed. My local dealer gave me the same line as you are getting. "That's the best we can do, really. We're almost taking a loss with this deal." I had done my research and had told him what price I'd be willing to pay. When he couldn't match it, I politely said, thank you for your time, and walked out. I got 3 more quotes and ended up paying more than $3K less by buying from a dealer about an hour away. It helps to get in touch with them very close to the end of the month. I called this one after they closed on the 31st and someone answered and beat my request by $150.

The local dealer called me 2 days later to see if I had found anyone that could meet my demand and when I told them yes, they acted shocked. Some dealers get better deals from Toyota than others. Incentives are different from month to month and from dealer to dealer. Be patient and do your research. Set the price you want based on what you think the truck is worth, not what they tell you it costs them.

Good luck.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:05 AM   #3
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Let me explain holdback.

Holdback is not something built into the price of the vehicle, it is not something that is invoiced, it is not something that the customer pays. Anyone who tells you different is plain lying (let me re-phrase, lying MORE than usual)

Holdback is different for each vehicle, that much is true. However, holdback is what Toyota Motor Corporation of Japan pays to Joe Blow's Toyota Dealership when they sell a new vehicle. It is a spiff or commission if you will. Kind of like the $5.00 that the punk kid at best buy gets paid each time he gets someone to say yes to the 19.99 service plan on whatever you just bought.

If the dealer is trying to get the consumer to pay it then they are just trying to pad the bottom line of the deal.

TDA Toyota Direct Advertising, is in point of fact on any invoice that you will see. It is supposedly how Toyota pays for things like the Tacoma World of Warcraft commercial that we all liked so much. It is in the range of $400.00. I cant remember the exact number without looking it up right now, but it will be the same amount regardless of what dealer you go to.

Can you avoid paying it? Maybe, I've never tried. I have always just accepted it as part of the invoice price.

As for the wholsale financing whatever it was you said. That one is total horse $h!t too. Tell them to stick that in a very un-comfortable place.

Also tell them to stick their "locate fees" and "transport fees" in that same uncomfortable place.

Take your invoice price, that you researched, and add in the TDA charge, and that is the absolute highest price that you should pay for that vehicle. Perhaps you can get them to drop the TDA charge, but I doubt it, but as has been stated some dealers get better pricing than others, so I would not go one red cent above invoice plus TDA.

As far as tax title and tags, those are also supposed to be regulated, so they should be the same at any dealer (within the same state), your DOC fees, they can fluctuate, from dealer to dealer, and you may be able to beat them by telling them that you're more than happy to come pick up the paperwork for your new truck when they have processed it and take it to DMV yourself. Will they let you do that? NO, but it may be a way to get them to drop the fee.

Stick to your guns, and play hardball with them, one dealer or another will be smart enough to realize that a unit moved is a unit moved and it still looks better on their bottom line than paying interest on that vehicle for another month does.
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Old 11-20-2007, 04:20 PM   #4
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What infuriates me is all the stuff they try to sell you after you've made the deal (gap protection (I only financed $5500), undercoat protection, fabric, paint protection (they call it something else), extended warranties, etc..).

It's a Toyota!
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:46 PM   #5
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It shouldn't infuriate you. Just politely say "No" and that's it. I never have a problem with it.

One other thing, stealerships WILL NOT negotiate holdback. I've seen people on forums say they have but I call BS every time I see it.
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by WilsonTheDog View Post
It shouldn't infuriate you. Just politely say "No" and that's it. I never have a problem with it.

One other thing, stealerships WILL NOT negotiate holdback. I've seen people on forums say they have but I call BS every time I see it.
Could this be the 1st BREAK we have been looking for? I just received this e-mail from the Dealer in PA for 2007 4x4 Access Cab with TRD Sport Pkg #1. This one has been sitting on a lot for over 4 months... I noticed the date when it was sent to the dealer on an invoice the sales person e-mailed me.

Here is the quote, " I'll just bring him the offer invoice, minus holdback to the General Manager and I'll see what he says. We have nothing to lose Keith. I like to think positive."
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:45 PM   #7
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That's great if you get it. You're talking about an '07, right? I would imagine they'd be more willing to deal with that since they're trying to get rid of it. 4 months is a LOOOOOONNG time for a Tacoma to sit on a lot.

Of course, I'll still only believe a dealer negotiating holdback when I see it. I have 2 car salesmen in my family so we'll see...
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:25 PM   #8
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A few things I did when I bought mine.
I originally was out to buy a car. I got to know dealers WELL.

I researched the hell out of the Nissan Frontier and Toyota Tacoma even though I knew I liked the Tacoma better. I went to Nissan dealerships and found the strengths of the Frontier and I found the weaknesses of the Tacoma.

I consistently worked with or was in contact with 2 Nissan dealerships and 3 Toyota dealerships over the course of 3 months.

Among other things I did in my planning. I went around with my folder with stats, common sales prices (from edmunds), my credit report, and enlarged photo copies of my drivers license. On the photo copies of my drivers license I wrote "Do Not Use for Credit Check!" and initialed it.

Another key move was using edmunds to get quotes for prices before entering the market. Dealerships that could not follow instructions were given a second chance but only through email. If they could not accommodate my requests based on exactly what I asked for, I would tell them point blank that I had no desire to continue working with them. Ultimately they led to a sales managers call. The overall ability to follow detailed instructions gave me insight into how easy a dealership would be to work with.

Upon arrival I would discuss the vehicle, often banter with them showing my knowledge but not arrogance. Then, when it was time to test drive, I gave them photo copies instead of my actual license. That step wasn't as needed at the Toyota dealerships because the ones I worked with were exceptionally ethical. However, it saved me at the Nissan dealerships. Around these parts they do some dirty shit and have some crafty sales practices.

When asked about trade I never let it enter the discussion, and I had already researched outside financing and had the option secured. That way I had leverage or could make them find a better rate than the on-line finance options I used. (cant remember which ones I found them on a car buying site). I only let one dealership even consider looking at my truck and I took my extra set of keys with me. They tried to "misplace" them and keep them away from me and got nervous when I got up to walk out with a second set in hand. (Nissan dealership)

Not to toot my own horn, but I also carried my financial calculator. I could essentially run payment calculations and scenarios whenever they gave me a number and often adjust it before they could go run whatever report they wanted. I honestly made a few of them sweat when I pulled out that calculator. If you are familiar with the functions or think you can learn how to use it, its well worth the $25 and will also come in handy should you decide to finance other items. They will factor in compounding and give you extremely accurate estimates. Option 2, just figure that at 5% you can expect to pay $20 for every thousand dollars financed per month, give or take a dollar for 60 months.

One other thing I did that I just remembered. If I spoke to a sales "manager" that I didn't like I made sure that they knew I didn't like them if I went back in the dealership. The one I ultimately purchased from I went in 4-5 times before the purchase and found 2 sales managers that I told them I refused to speak with. I was also very vocal as to why. The first because he was an idiot and paid no attention to detail. The second because even after telling him that I worked in finance and quoted the tax benefit structures for why leasing exists and the pitfalls of it for the common consumer, he still tried to push it. I also didn't like his perceived attitude toward southerners. (he was from NJ) Bottom line, be vocal but don't be rude.

I can't tell you what lines I didn't pay. I can tell you that I mercilessly had dealerships competing with one another. I even took phone calls from dealership x while sitting with the sales rep at dealership y. In one case I had two dealerships owned by the same company fighting one another.

If you enjoy negotiating you can have a ball at this. If not, try a dealership that offers a reasonable "no haggle" price. I ended up at one of those but still haggled.

When it was all said and done, I think before tax & tag I came in about $4000 below sticker and about 700 below edmunds best estimate.

Just do your research, take your time, and argue on the bottom line not sticky points.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick491 View Post
Let me explain holdback.

Holdback is not something built into the price of the vehicle, it is not something that is invoiced, it is not something that the customer pays. Anyone who tells you different is plain lying (let me re-phrase, lying MORE than usual)

Holdback is different for each vehicle, that much is true. However, holdback is what Toyota Motor Corporation of Japan pays to Joe Blow's Toyota Dealership when they sell a new vehicle. It is a spiff or commission if you will. Kind of like the $5.00 that the punk kid at best buy gets paid each time he gets someone to say yes to the 19.99 service plan on whatever you just bought.

If the dealer is trying to get the consumer to pay it then they are just trying to pad the bottom line of the deal.

TDA Toyota Direct Advertising, is in point of fact on any invoice that you will see. It is supposedly how Toyota pays for things like the Tacoma World of Warcraft commercial that we all liked so much. It is in the range of $400.00. I cant remember the exact number without looking it up right now, but it will be the same amount regardless of what dealer you go to.

Can you avoid paying it? Maybe, I've never tried. I have always just accepted it as part of the invoice price.

As for the wholsale financing whatever it was you said. That one is total horse $h!t too. Tell them to stick that in a very un-comfortable place.

Also tell them to stick their "locate fees" and "transport fees" in that same uncomfortable place.

Take your invoice price, that you researched, and add in the TDA charge, and that is the absolute highest price that you should pay for that vehicle. Perhaps you can get them to drop the TDA charge, but I doubt it, but as has been stated some dealers get better pricing than others, so I would not go one red cent above invoice plus TDA.

As far as tax title and tags, those are also supposed to be regulated, so they should be the same at any dealer (within the same state), your DOC fees, they can fluctuate, from dealer to dealer, and you may be able to beat them by telling them that you're more than happy to come pick up the paperwork for your new truck when they have processed it and take it to DMV yourself. Will they let you do that? NO, but it may be a way to get them to drop the fee.

Stick to your guns, and play hardball with them, one dealer or another will be smart enough to realize that a unit moved is a unit moved and it still looks better on their bottom line than paying interest on that vehicle for another month does.
I believe the transportation fee is also one of those fees that everyone pays. According to what I've seen it is a legit fee that everyone pays since the dealer does pay Toyota this fee for transporting the vehicle to the dealership.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:11 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Viper-2 View Post
I believe the transportation fee is also one of those fees that everyone pays. According to what I've seen it is a legit fee that everyone pays since the dealer does pay Toyota this fee for transporting the vehicle to the dealership.
I am sorry, I was not clear. You are correct on that.

I was refering to a transport fee thay will try to charge if they have to trade vehicles with another dealer to get the truck you want.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonTheDog View Post
It shouldn't infuriate you. Just politely say "No" and that's it. I never have a problem with it.

One other thing, stealerships WILL NOT negotiate holdback. I've seen people on forums say they have but I call BS every time I see it.
Hold back is exactly as I defined it above. The amount is not negotiable that is correct, but it has nothing to do with the consumer. It is strictly between the manufacturer and the dealership.

I have NEVER paid holdback on any of the three brand-new Toyotas that I have purchased.

You can call BS all you like but you are wrong.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:09 PM   #12
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Dealer willing to drop the Holdback !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick491 View Post
Hold back is exactly as I defined it above. The amount is not negotiable that is correct, but it has nothing to do with the consumer. It is strictly between the manufacturer and the dealership.

I have NEVER paid holdback on any of the three brand-new Toyotas that I have purchased.

You can call BS all you like but you are wrong.
Hi Maverick,

This is an actual copy of an e-mail from the dealer regarding the HOLDBACK. They are actually dropping the HOLDBACK !!! So your assertion on HOLDBACK is 100% proved !!

"Hi Keith!
I spoke with the GM. He said we can do the holdback on this truck, then minus the $1,000 rebate. So, the MSRP is $29,508, the invoice is $26,950, minus the $477 holdback = $26,473, minus the 1K rebate = $25,473, plus tax and tags."

What they did not include was the "Wholesale Financial Reserve." I sent them yet another e-mail asking them to drop the Wholesale Financial Reserve fee of nearly $300.00. Let's see if they would. If they do, do you think I am getting a ONE helluva deal and I should jump in with both feet at once??? This is 07 left over 4x4 Access cab v-6 auto w/TRD#1 sport pkg., tow pkg, and 6-CD stereo.


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Old 11-21-2007, 07:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by khfactor View Post
Hi Maverick,

This is an actual copy of an e-mail from the dealer regarding the HOLDBACK. They are actually dropping the HOLDBACK !!! So your assertion on HOLDBACK is 100% proved !!

"Hi Keith!
I spoke with the GM. He said we can do the holdback on this truck, then minus the $1,000 rebate. So, the MSRP is $29,508, the invoice is $26,950, minus the $477 holdback = $26,473, minus the 1K rebate = $25,473, plus tax and tags."

What they did not include was the "Wholesale Financial Reserve." I sent them yet another e-mail asking them to drop the Wholesale Financial Reserve fee of nearly $300.00. Let's see if they would. If they do, do you think I am getting a ONE helluva deal and I should jump in with both feet at once??? This is 07 left over 4x4 Access cab v-6 auto w/TRD#1 sport pkg., tow pkg, and 6-CD stereo.


I'd say try to push for them to drop the wholesale financial reserve, (Since I have never even heard of that before this thread) but even if they won't drop that I'd say go ahead and jump anyway. Youre already not quite a full thousand dollars under what I paid for my truck, and you're looking at the auto which is also not quite a thousand dollar option, so you're at about 1700 dollars better than I paid if we were comparing apples to apples, so regardless of the latest outcome I'd say go for it.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick491 View Post
I'd say try to push for them to drop the wholesale financial reserve, (Since I have never even heard of that before this thread) but even if they won't drop that I'd say go ahead and jump anyway. Youre already not quite a full thousand dollars under what I paid for my truck, and you're looking at the auto which is also not quite a thousand dollar option, so you're at about 1700 dollars better than I paid if we were comparing apples to apples, so regardless of the latest outcome I'd say go for it.
Hey Maverick491,

This is the final deal that I agreed to. See below....

2007 Tacoma Access Cab v-6 4x4

Options Retail Invoice

Base Turck $23,890.00 $21,201.00
50 State Emission FE $0.00 $0.00
TRD Sport Package #1 PY $3,915.00 $3,142.00
6-CD AM/CM/Changer DZ $200.00 $150.00
V-6 Towing Package TO $650.00 $520.00
Prefer.Owner Portf. DK $- $6.00
Preferred Access. Pkg Z1 $208.00 $131.00

Destination $645.00 $645.00

TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising) $430.00
Gasoline $10.00
Dealer Holdback $477.00
Wholesale Financial Reserve $238.00

Total As shown on INVOICE $29,508.00 $26,950.00


Dealer Holdback Credit $(477.00)
Wholesale Financial Reserve credit $(238.00)
Rebate $(1,000.00)
Total $29,508.00 $25,235.00

6% PA Sales tax $1,770.48 $1,514.10
Tag and Title $131.00 $ 131.00
OUT THE DOOR PRICE $31,398.48 $26,869.10

Thanks to you, I pushed the dealer on dropping the Wholesale Fin. Res. crap and they reluctantly agreed. So I am picking this truck up on Friday this week for the invoice price....

I definitely owe you a BEER and then some. Come over to Philly one day and I will treat you to a good lunch and a beer !!!
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khfactor View Post
Hey Maverick491

Thanks to you, I pushed the dealer on dropping the Wholesale Fin. Res. crap and they reluctantly agreed. So I am picking this truck up on Friday this week for the invoice price....

I definitely owe you a BEER and then some. Come over to Philly one day and I will treat you to a good lunch and a beer !!!
Congratulations!!

Glad you found a dealer willing to work with you, and that you will officially be a Tacoma owner on Friday. Now you can let the rest of us talk you into spending all that money you saved on Mods to your new truck. LOL. It really is kind of like a disease.

I will definately take you up on lunch and a beer as soon as my schedule permits me an afternoon free.

Again congratulations!
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khfactor View Post
Hi Maverick,

This is an actual copy of an e-mail from the dealer regarding the HOLDBACK. They are actually dropping the HOLDBACK !!! So your assertion on HOLDBACK is 100% proved !!

"Hi Keith!
I spoke with the GM. He said we can do the holdback on this truck, then minus the $1,000 rebate. So, the MSRP is $29,508, the invoice is $26,950, minus the $477 holdback = $26,473, minus the 1K rebate = $25,473, plus tax and tags."

What they did not include was the "Wholesale Financial Reserve." I sent them yet another e-mail asking them to drop the Wholesale Financial Reserve fee of nearly $300.00. Let's see if they would. If they do, do you think I am getting a ONE helluva deal and I should jump in with both feet at once??? This is 07 left over 4x4 Access cab v-6 auto w/TRD#1 sport pkg., tow pkg, and 6-CD stereo.


I'd say that sounds like a pretty good deal. You may be able to get them to do better but at the risk of losing the truck. My truck listed for $30,xxx and i got them down to 26.5k and that included tax tags and title and all necessary fee's. They brought in my truck from another state for me and tried to charge me $600. I told them i would just drive up there and get it myself. They dropped the transfer fee. i had a good working little car and i didnt HAVE to buy a new truck which is why i got a good deal. Mine was an 07 that i bought at the begining of 07. I worked over a a few different dealers and had them competeing for each other. i finally bought the truck when i took one dealers quote to the other and they said "if they give you taht price take it, cause we cant beat it" Thats when i figured i had the truck at its lowest cost.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:43 AM   #17
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Got It !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick491 View Post
Congratulations!!

Glad you found a dealer willing to work with you, and that you will officially be a Tacoma owner on Friday. Now you can let the rest of us talk you into spending all that money you saved on Mods to your new truck. LOL. It really is kind of like a disease.

I will definately take you up on lunch and a beer as soon as my schedule permits me an afternoon free.

Again congratulations!
Picked up my 2007 Tacoma yesterday. Sweeet!!! A White beauty ! Believe it or not, I picked it up in Harrisburg, PA. Took the Amtrak from Philly to get there. Only $24/one way.

On PA turnpike, it ran so smoooooth and quiet. I wanted to take it easy during the break-in period and as such I took my time on PA turnpike coming home. I did 45 mph for about 15 min, 60 mph for 20 min, 75 mph for about a few minutes. I got some dirty look from truckers and some asswipes for going too slow.... One asswipe passed me by doing 85 mps and sure enough, his ass got nailed about 15 miles after he passed me. Let that be a lesson for that punk !!

Anyway, now that my Taco is in my posession, I will be asking you senior Tacomanians alot of questions.... Like that name, "Tacomanians?""
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:12 PM   #18
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would not- could not

I have never paid the TDA. Ever. I find out what they paid for the vehicle, figure out what their add-ons cost them, figure out what those add-ons would cost me after market and then I bargain from there. All I have ever had to tell them is, if you want to sell this vehicle today, you'll figure out a way to eliminate those TDA fees. That's the cost of doing business my man. It also helps that I walk in with 2-3 other printed offers from other dealers. Remember, no matter how many times they call you their friend, you ain't having coffee with them after they sell you the vehicle.
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:28 PM   #19
khfactor [OP] khfactor is offline
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Originally Posted by Oaklandish View Post
I have never paid the TDA. Ever. I find out what they paid for the vehicle, figure out what their add-ons cost them, figure out what those add-ons would cost me after market and then I bargain from there. All I have ever had to tell them is, if you want to sell this vehicle today, you'll figure out a way to eliminate those TDA fees. That's the cost of doing business my man. It also helps that I walk in with 2-3 other printed offers from other dealers. Remember, no matter how many times they call you their friend, you ain't having coffee with them after they sell you the vehicle.
Well, I tried to haggle the TDA out of the negotiated price, but they said they would rather keep the truck than to let it go without the TDA. But I was able to get rid of Dealer Holdbacks and Wholesale Financing Reserve mark up which totaled more than $750.
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