Capital Hill - Recall Testimony

Again proof means one car reving like crazy caught on camera with clearly visible no modifications or no floor mats. Camry in the lake is not a proof just like my kid telling me window broke on its own while standing in another room.

Ethical issue.... No, floor mat issue can be put in the same category as Hot cofee lawsuit. if somebody can not control floor mats it should not be allowed to drive and I would rather see Police take a way driver license to person like that. In old days you had to pass mechanical test before getting driver license. Plus one of the first things my father teach me when I was learning to drive was to check my floor mats. maybe its parents issue then.
BTW: I am not defending Toyota because there is nothing to defend them from.

 

Good article that shows how stupidity of few affects us all.
No more solid axle, more electronics and less fun driving vehicle. I would like to see vehicles produced with two category version.
Category I - just for stupid people with all the gizmos to fix stupid (ABS, Traction, brake overide, drive by wire, traction control, Stability control, IFS etc etc)
Category II - for the rest of us simple no electronics beyond EFI to meet emissions. Heck I will sign waver that I will never sue Toyota ...

 

Like this?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJjUt2sXo5o

No matter what evidence is submitted someone is always going to try and discredit it.

 

Funny i hear that often when somebody tells me my code did X Y Z and then I ask for proof of it because I know it can not do X Y Z for a simple reason I did not tell it to.

 

I bet the lady tried to put it in park. I bet she doesnt know what the N on the shifter is for.
I think there is something wrong with the computers in all of the Toyota's, I hope they get this stuff ironed out as soon as possible. My wife drives around in a Highlander with my 1 y.o. son and I am worried for them. I am not worried about my truck because I think I can handle this situation and the unlikely event that it will happen.
Toyota just needs to handle their business!

 

I didn't assume you were making argument, and I apologize if my e-mail came across that way. Much is lost in translation in the posts of ours...

 

I don't doubt that some unintended acceleration may happen, I think the focus then should be on what defensive driving measures are taken to combat the situation. It is clear that some drivers panic and make a bad situation worse. As far as the floor mats are concerned, if they were the culprit, wouldn't we see this from other manufacturers as well. The "hook types" are used by all it seems.

 

Not necessary, small foot people drive cars so pedal was moved closer to the floor (ok no joke inteded here ) Hence more likely for floor mat to get caught in the pedal if floor mat is out of correct position. Its probably another example why car companies should not bow to convenience. Make a pedal higher who cares people need to lift their leg to press on accelerator. get a ladder

 

I noticed the pedal in my 1994 Corolla is higher off the floor than the one in my Tacoma. I actually think Toyota should use Honda's design. The pedal in my 2007 Civic pivots at the floor. There is no way a mat could get under it.

 

The facts as I see them.


1... Owners complained about Unintended Acceleration
Toyota dismissed them as Operator Error

2... Owners continued to complain about Unintended Acceleration
Toyota blamed it on the Floor Mats

3...Owners continued to complain about Unintended Acceleration
Toyota blamed it on a sticky gas pedal

4...Toyota sent out letters too those complaining stating that

 

The reported problem isn't the mat getting under it, it is the mat getting over it and depressing it, causing the vehicle to accelerate. That design you describe will make the problem worse.

 

The demo I saw on TV (in fact they used a Tacoma) showed the rubber floor mat stuck under the pedal. In my Civic, if the mat were to come loose from the hooks, the mat would ride up the pedal. This would be a distraction to the driver, but the pedal would not get stuck. Here's a picture.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/24/report-toyota-recalled-floor-mats-in-the-uk-ten-years-ago-didn/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fautoblog+%28Autoblog%29

 

As a writer of code, I'm familiar with this problem. It's pretty tough to think of every possible thing a user can do to cause a problem and there's no amount of testing one can do to insure their code is bug free before it's released. Users always seem to find something that you didn't consider.

According to the author of Code Complete:

Industry Average: "about 15 - 50 errors per 1000 lines of delivered code." He further says this is usually representative of code that has some level of structured programming behind it, but probably includes a mix of coding techniques.
​

1000 lines of code isn't that big. So depending on how complex the code in the computer is, there could be a large number of bugs waiting to happen.

 

great post...thanks for sharing!

 

The problem of proof is compounded if it's a particular rare state that cause the problem. If the car always did that, it would be an easy fix and you'd have your Youtube video. However if there is some state in the computer which causes the problem but the likelihood of getting into that state is 1:100,000, your odds of duplicating it are very slim. The value in the professor's testimony is that there is such a state whereby the acceleration problem can occur. Is it likely, probably not but that state does exist in the system. So we may be dealing with the 1:100,000 problem which is very difficult to replicate.

 

Here's a real-life example of getting a computer into an unforseen state.
http://www.ccnr.org/fatal_dose.html

 

Its not like Toyota's are the only vehicle on the roads with electronic throttles. Most every manufacture uses electronic throttles, big rigs have been using them for many many years with millions of miles on them. I think this is more about "buy American" and discrediting Toyota then anything else.

One thing I've always wondered when I first heard about "sticky" gas pedals, was how many of these people are pressing the brake and actually have their foot on the throttle as-well and then blame it on the car. Old people do it all the time, but it can't be my fault its the car... right

 

Not really, if you rewire car of course you can trigger whatever you want. Toyota service has neat computers to run diagnostics that can trigger any sensor and simulate conditions. I would guess they can cause car to accelerate if they want to.
There would be value if acceleration was done with out modifying the car (put magnetic field next to accelerator pedal, cause moisture build up etc)

Making car do whatever you want by modifying it, had been done by Mythbusters for long time so there is nothing to be impressed by it.
Now I agree problem could be hard to replicate but there is also possibility that there is no problem hence it can not be replicated.
Sheer number of cars that supposed to be affected dictates that we should consider that possibility. The odds that with such a large number of cars problem can not be replicated are slim.

 

He has simulated a fault condition which is not detectable by the computer because the sensors were shorted out. It is conceivable that a sensor, even two, could go bad (always open or always shorted), which is why shorting them out is valid. There is always some probability that a sensor will go bad. The more sensors you have, the higher the probability that at least one will go bad. Highly unlikely maybe but not impossible. It's a valid simualtion.

 

Thank you! Not likely, hence it has only happened to a a few vehicles, but it can happen. After some time overseas I learned that ANYTHING can happen, all you can do is be ready when it does.