Computer controlled throttle with manual transmission...

How many of you find the computer controlled throttle to frequently not mesh so well with the shifting of a manual transmission?

I get by, have been for three years now. But I've had to adjust my driving/shifting significantly for this truck. In every other MT vehicle I've owned/driven, I'm used to the RPMs dropping as soon as I take my foot off the accelerator. In this truck, what brings the RPMs down is when they're forced down by letting the clutch out in the next gear.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Agreed, driving my '08 Tacoma was the most adjusting I have done to drive a properly functioning MT vehicle. MTs are all I have driven from a 77 IHC Scout to an 04 Jetta TDI.

The hanging RPMs do bother me. I think it was an attempt by Toyota to automatically rev match, but that is something I would rather do on my own. I picked a manual trans, after all.

I do like the engine braking feature. I hardly use the brakes at all. It is great when towing. The only problem is that I have almost been rear ended several times due to the lack of brake lights while slowing down.

 

I think that they keep the revs up to help burn fuel better for emissions. I get off the gas a little sooner before I use the clutch and the revving isn't as noticable.

 

I think the slow responsiveness of the throttle is also a factor.

I've had this truck for over three years now, and I still don't feel like I can fully start out smoothly in first gear from a stop 100% of the time. I'm not saying I stall out or anything like that, but it's not always a smooth start. Any other manual transmission equipped vehicle I have ever driven, I get to a point where I get that "one with the vehicle" type feeling. I still don't have it here.

It makes sense I guess. You hit the accelerator on this thing, and you have to wait for the computer to decide to 'fulfill your request' for more throttle. So to get that "one with the vehicle" feeling, the best you can do is try to anticipate how the computer is going to react when you press the pedal.

 

I can't say for sure, but I don't think that really has anything to do with it. For example, put the truck in neutral and tap the gas. Watch the tach, and you can see the response is always delayed. For that matter, if you tap it fast enough, the tach will never budge, not at all. It's like you're telling the computer what you want it to do, but it decides when and how. So under those circumstances, I think it makes it more difficult to have a smooth, controlled start with a manual transmission.

In other words, a vehicle with a throttle reaction that is completely predictable and controllable will give you more precision as you learn the subtleties of the engine. But having the computer control the throttle, it's almost like driving with a middle man between you and the engine, and that middle man doesn't get it right.

 

my tacoma is my first manual vehicle so ive never really noticed the hanging rpms until joining this site and reading about it. it is nearly impossible to start off smoothly though even after a year of driving it

 

I have no problem starting off smoothly. I think it has more to do with the tall gearing of first gear. I have larger tires (285s) now so it's not as much of an issue. Makes 1st gear more useable.

 

Throttle response sucks. It took me about 2 months to really get used to the weird things it does by itself. I wrote one letter to Toyota corporate and one to the TRD division and told them exactly that. I told them I'd pay to get my plain old throttle cable back, along with its far better sensitivity. No response yet and I don't expect any.

There's no going back though - times are changing and soon there won't be any mechanical controls.

 

I've noticed while driving along in second gear, and letting off the gas, the truck starts to engine break...slows down, slows down...and then at a certain point the engine breaking releases and i just coast. Kind of sucks when trying to engine break for a stop sign usining second and i'm just about at the sign and the engine unwinds and i need to step on the break and down shift to 1 or N....is this normal?

 

Normal, as in the norm among Tacomas, yes.

That particular feature really disturbed me when I first got the truck in 2007. Just like you said, I would be in gear coasting toward a point where I would need to stop, or perhaps just toward slower moving traffic. Suddenly the computer would decide I was letting the RPMs go too low for that gear, which I wasn't, and it would actually give it more throttle on its own. That really pissed me off.

I don't have problems with that anymore, just because I know that will happen so I don't let the RPMs get too low while slowing down. But it's kind of a shocking feeling when you're slowing down, seemingly in control of your vehicle, when suddenly the computer decides to stop slowing you down and actually speed you up.

 

I can usually start off smoothly, but not always. "Smoothly" may not be the right word. When I start out, many of my starts are not...efficient. It's hard to predict what the computer is going to do when you start to let out that clutch and switch your foot from the brake to the accelerator.

When you start out in first, you want to get the right balance of clutch engagement with throttle, right? Too little throttle, and you stall out or have a rough start. Too much, and you spin the wheels or jerk forward.

Well with a conventional throttle system, you quickly get used to the feel of your throttle. When you get that "one with the vehicle" feeling, you don't think about it, you just go. In every other vehicle, the starts feel and sound seamless and graceful. In this vehicle, about half of them sound retarded. It's like you're letting out the clutch (mechanical), and with your other foot, you're telling your little dimwitted electronic friend how to adjust the throttle, rather than doing it yourself. It's never going to be the same.

I think the clutch is what takes the punishment for it. You can use the clutch to compensate for too much throttle and to some degree too little, but it sure as hell isn't the way it should be.

 

^agreed!

 

This is the first of many manual transmission vehicles that I've driven where I wish it was an automatic. I've been driving manuals since I got my license in 1983, I've owned this truck for 2 years, and I am still having issues with smooth starts.

 

Glad I am not alone here with my 2010, not much has changed. I enjoy it and wouldn't want an auto right now, but it is the hardest manual I've ever driven.

I noticed someone else mentioned that shifting at higher RPM is smoother and I agree. My 2nd gear is difficult to shift into unless i hit about 3k RPM in first then shift and it glides right in. Every other gear I can shift 2500 normal.

 

That's exactly why I bought an Auto.

I hated the fact the RPM's didn't drop when you press the clutch in. During my test drive, I was like..."What the hell is that about?"

I love manuals, but that annoyed me on the test drive.

 

^agreed....can all this high reving up to 3K do damage? It can't be good for feul economy! and sounds aweful people or other cars next to me when doing so. sounds like i don't know when to shift! BUT I DO!!

 

Well... I'm fortunate enough to also have an '08 FJ, that has an auto trans. So I can sort of compare side-by-side. I prefer the manual 6 spd in the Tacoma, now that I've gotten used to it. It simply allows you to have more control. The FJ is very nice in traffic of course, but it does do the occasional odd thing. Like when accelerating quickly, it will downshift further than it should if you don't anticipate it with the accelerator pedal. Something to keep in mind though - it's basically a truck. It's not a car. The trans is being asked to handle a lot of different things, from on-street stuff, to off-road. In all, if you keep that in mind and deal with the idiosyncrasies, they both do an ok job. Yes, I'd rather have total control with no computer weirdness, but when you consider all the other stuff the computer controls do for you, our vehicles work well. I like mine.... part of that is because I remember the old days when you had a manual choke, your vehicle wouldn't idle worth a crap until it warmed up, you didn't have stuff like intermittent wipers, all-synchro transmissions and heaters that actually work. You guys need to enjoy what you have and be thankful. Yes, I'm that old.

 

Given the stiff shift to second at 2500 vs smooth glide into at 3000 I would say that shifting lower is worse on the syncros in mine till it warms up more. 3000 isnt that high and its only for 2nd gear I can shift normal and at 2200-2500 any other gear. I average 20-23mpg.

I also shift slower and that lets the RPMS come down more.

The following is my OPINION not fact:::::::::
I've seen videos of people's tachs and mine dont seem to "hang" like some do especially the 4.0, but I don't want to start that back and forth mess. I think people want to shift faster and this doesn't jive with this truck.

 

I came from a 6 speed altima and that thing was hard to start out smooth, the "sweet spot" was so small. i have found the tacoma to be very smooth as long as you rev up the rpms before releasing the clutch.

 

I have trouble starting from a stop on a hill with my 2.7 5 speed. I miss the old fashion throttle cable. I often kill it or over rev and slip the clutch more than needed. I took a manual transmission to have more control over fuel economy. I most often shift below 2k. I am up to almost 26.5 mpg for 50/50 type driving.


ZDog