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Old 05-05-2010, 06:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
You will not get HP gains, or MPG gains from a plug change. Maybe on an older vehicle, but not a modern one. I said the Iridium plugs and Platinum may last longer, but they offer no other benafit to these engines.
Exactly why I stated the stock application part. And I still stand by the better performance and better gas mileage. It's been proven time and time again. Plus, think about it like this. Copper plugs are going to be wearing at a MUCH higher rate then iridium or platinum. In this time the center electrode is wearing down and your gap is increasing. Every mile you go you are decreasing performance and gas mileage on any plug. With copper this decrease is much more prominent. Significant?...Maybe not to some, but I just bought my truck and it is coming up on 60K and i can tell that they haven't been changed yet. I'm just waiting for that 60K mark to do a major service. I edited my post by the way. The money factor alone should make you want to switch to iridium.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerchant3 View Post
Exactly why I stated the stock application part. And I still stand by the better performance and better gas mileage. It's been proven time and time again. Plus, think about it like this. Copper plugs are going to be wearing at a MUCH higher rate then iridium or platinum. In this time the center electrode is wearing down and your gap is increasing. Every mile you go you are decreasing performance and gas mileage on any plug. With copper this decrease is much more prominent. Significant?...Maybe not to some, but I just bought my truck and it is coming up on 60K and i can tell that they haven't been changed yet. I'm just waiting for that 60K mark to do a major service. I edited my post by the way. The money factor alone should make you want to switch to iridium.
I have dynoed different plugs. Best dyno runs I have seen are with the OEM plugs. FWIW, Changing the plugs is not that hard, and its a good way to see how the engine is performing. The Gap doesnt grow so much in which it affects performance. In 30K miles, the gaps usually grow about .004 (Denso). Still well within specs. Also, tenchnically, the larger the gap, the more performance, as a larger spark is created. To a point. So performance doesnt "decrease".
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
I have dynoed different plugs. Best dyno runs I have seen are with the OEM plugs. FWIW, Changing the plugs is not that hard, and its a good way to see how the engine is performing. The Gap doesnt grow so much in which it affects performance. In 30K miles, the gaps usually grow about .004 (Denso). Still well within specs. Also, tenchnically, the larger the gap, the more performance, as a larger spark is created. To a point. So performance doesnt "decrease".
A larger spark takes more work for the ignition to produce. This can result in a misfire. I see no gains there. It's not a matter of how hard they are to change that I was getting across...it was the money factor. The only time I have ever pulled a plug to diag an engine is when it is already running like crap (and for the record it's usually not a fuel or ignition problem). So to pull a plug to check how one is running is a thing of the past. Unless you are tuning and making fuel changes of course. But even now with wideband O2 sensors this is less common.



This is in a 1.8T to point out gains for iridiums. And the link http://www.elitedubs.com/index.php?t...91.0;topicseen

The simple fact that all higher end cars use them should be enough to tell you. These are the cars that the manufactures don't have to cut as many corners to sacrifice quality or performance.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:19 PM   #24
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In an Turbo'ed or SC'ed engine, Absolutley, you wil have better results with an Iridium or other plug. Not with an NA engine. Yes, Alot of Cars use them. How many Trucks? The manufactures still have to build an engine that exceeds EPA efficency requirements. They get penalized if they dont. if a simple plug, at a cost increase of $50.00 per vehicle (just an arbitrary number, as a manufacture is going to get them MUCH less than the general public) made that much difference, you can bet they would have it in the engine from the get go.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
In an Turbo'ed or SC'ed engine, Absolutley, you wil have better results with an Iridium or other plug. Not with an NA engine. Yes, Alot of Cars use them. How many Trucks? The manufactures still have to build an engine that exceeds EPA efficency requirements. They get penalized if they dont. if a simple plug, at a cost increase of $50.00 per vehicle (just an arbitrary number, as a manufacture is going to get them MUCH less than the general public) made that much difference, you can bet they would have it in the engine from the get go.
Not many trucks because how many trucks are purposely built for performance or gas mileage? If you can cut the cost at the expense that most truck owners don't care about anyways; why not? I know all about the EPA regulations and the standards that the car companies have to adhere to (we should say pass). They also get perks for have SULEV vehicles too. As long as they pass they are happy.

As far as a "simple" $50.00 to a manufacture...that is a TON. We will use $30.00 to make it fair that they get them cheaper. $30.00 X 189,987 (amount of tacomas sold in 2005) = $56,996.10 And that's just in the US. Trust me when I say that is a lot of money for a car manufacture. I work for Acura and they have changed a wiring harness in our cars to save an average of .02 per car to see a better profit. U can bet your ass that if they can save $30.00 a car they will be all over it!
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerchant3 View Post
Not many trucks because how many trucks are purposely built for performance or gas mileage? If you can cut the cost at the expense that most truck owners don't care about anyways; why not? I know all about the EPA regulations and the standards that the car companies have to adhere to (we should say pass). They also get perks for have SULEV vehicles too. As long as they pass they are happy.

As far as a "simple" $50.00 to a manufacture...that is a TON. We will use $30.00 to make it fair that they get them cheaper. $30.00 X 189,987 (amount of tacomas sold in 2005) = $56,996.10 And that's just in the US. Trust me when I say that is a lot of money for a car manufacture. I work for Acura and they have changed a wiring harness in our cars to save an average of .02 per car to see a better profit. U can bet your ass that if they can save $30.00 a car they will be all over it!
A wiring harness is a little different than federally mandated regulations. Im well aware of how much the cost is when counted for an entire line up. I still stand that if $50.00 could make the engine more efficient, and better performing, the manufacture would spend it. Look how much is being spent on Direct injection? The R&D alone is millions of bucks. Whats the pay off? 2% efficiency? if a simple change to a plug made that much difference, they would use it. Fact is, at least on the 1GR-FE, and 5VZ, (and for that matter, the Dodge 4.7) there is no gain with any of the Iridium, Platinum, etc., plugs. These engines just are not in a state of tune in which they would benafit from them.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:13 PM   #28
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We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I still stand by the fact that they are using it to save money. If they can pass the regulation with a cheaper plug...why not? And you are right the gains would be minimal on our engines to say the least. But in my eyes the benefits still outweigh copper plugs.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerchant3 View Post
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I still stand by the fact that they are saving money. If they can pass the regulation with a cheaper plug...why not?
Agreed. And if it made that much difference without that much of a cost, they would have them.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:21 PM   #30
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Sigh, I guess I'll let you have the last word...
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:34 PM   #31
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I would rather change the plugs 3 times in 100,000 just because I don't want to deal with pulling plugs for the first time out of an aluminum head after 100,000 miles. Stock densos work great and it really is not that big of a deal to swap them out every 30,000 or so. FWIW.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:35 PM   #32
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:56 PM   #33
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I agree with chris. I have driven with every plug i could find in my street strip mustang and i have been on the dyno with about 7 different plugs from from reg to triple platinum and i can honestly say i saw no difference in hp or tq and it ran no different. on top of that i fowled almost every plug in about the same amount time. My old auto shop teacher (who also used to wrench on old b stock drag cars) also told me that there is no difference. Now in a new car it may last a lil longer but i can honestly say not enough longer to justify the price. You can think all you want, but if it makes you feel its better its gona make it seem better. test results will show different tho. but i know what ive tested and have countless sheets to prove it. stick with the stock ones its not worth the money for the platinum. chris you are once again right
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:00 PM   #34
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i know everyone is saying to change them every 30,000 But my 2005 Tacoma manual says every 60,000. I just did mine for the first time ever at 69,000 thanks to chris 4x4's writeup. My old plugs weren't too bad surprisingly.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:10 PM   #35
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I'm using irridiums strictly because of the fact that they last longer. I can give a rat's ass if they give more performance or help my 16 mpg. When I changed my plugs at 30k, I thought to myself, feels good that I won't have to do this again for another 100k.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:23 PM   #36
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I'm using the NGK irridiums. Put them in 60,000 miles ago. Still running great!
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike07yota View Post
I agree with chris. I have driven with every plug i could find in my street strip mustang and i have been on the dyno with about 7 different plugs from from reg to triple platinum and i can honestly say i saw no difference in hp or tq and it ran no different. on top of that i fowled almost every plug in about the same amount time. My old auto shop teacher (who also used to wrench on old b stock drag cars) also told me that there is no difference. Now in a new car it may last a lil longer but i can honestly say not enough longer to justify the price. You can think all you want, but if it makes you feel its better its gona make it seem better. test results will show different tho. but i know what ive tested and have countless sheets to prove it. stick with the stock ones its not worth the money for the platinum. chris you are once again right

Did you not see how platinum or iridium's a cheaper in the long run?

Go to the first page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaBuzz View Post
i know everyone is saying to change them every 30,000 But my 2005 Tacoma manual says every 60,000. I just did mine for the first time ever at 69,000 thanks to chris 4x4's writeup. My old plugs weren't too bad surprisingly.
My service pamphlet says every 30K. Maybe that's a dealer pamphlet although I have seen the same ones in lots of Toyotas. I'll check the actual owners manual when I get a chance.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerchant3 View Post
Did you not see how platinum or iridium's a cheaper in the long run?

Go to the first page.



My service pamphlet says every 30K. Maybe that's a dealer pamphlet although I have seen the same ones in lots of Toyotas. I'll check the actual owners manual when I get a chance.
So is there a part number for NGK's sitting o n the driver side ?? I see part number for Denso's that Chris posted but not seen NGK.?
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjonags32 View Post
I'm using irridiums strictly because of the fact that they last longer. I can give a rat's ass if they give more performance or help my 16 mpg. When I changed my plugs at 30k, I thought to myself, feels good that I won't have to do this again for another 100k.
I agree with you. I just bought my 2010 TACO and was suprised that it came with the old school copper plugs. As far as changing over to irridiums i would just so i dont have to change the plugs as often.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
So is there a part number for NGK's sitting o n the driver side ?? I see part number for Denso's that Chris posted but not seen NGK.?
NGK V-Power (copper) LFR6C-11
NGK IX Iridium LFR6AIX-11
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