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is 0-30w synthetic oil sufficient?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by outlawtacoma, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. Jun 21, 2010 at 3:58 PM
    #41
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Forget the freezer it don't get cold enough. Like I said 5w/30 is fine at -40 If you have -50 below maybe 0w/30 is your oil. The interesting test would be heat some oil 5/30 to it's upper heat range and chill some 0w/30 oil to -50 below and drop a single dropper full of each on a inclined plain of 45 degrees and see which one hit the bottom of the plate first. That is what I was calling Thinness
     
  2. Jun 21, 2010 at 4:07 PM
    #42
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh....cause it's still a 30 weight oil and has the viscosity of a 30 weight at temperature.

    Read a little...it's just plain fascinating...

    "Use a grade thinner than you may at first think is best. Always use the oil with the lowest first number in the grade - use 0W-30 instead of 10W-30 and for many reasons use synthetic but mainly because of less wear and tear at start-up!"

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

    Consider the cold-start thickness of motor oils:


    Oil type... Thickness at 75 F...Thickness at 212 F

    Straight 30...... 250......................10
    10W-30............100......................10
    0W-30..............40 ......................10

    Straight 10........30....................... 6

    (from Dr. Haas' article)

    That's thickness at 75...hardly Minot in winter. Not even Philly in winter (OK...a real good day.)

    And remember that little bypass valve in the oil system? Oh...it opens when pressure is too high, in an attempt to let that too-thick oil flow around a filter that is like a brick wall to 100 cSt oil.

    Dude: your oil is completely by-passing the filter for maybe 15 minutes at every summer morning start! That's kinda important to these guys when a valve job on a Ferrari costs more than our truck!

    Oh: does the V6 have flat tappets?
     
  3. Jun 21, 2010 at 4:48 PM
    #43
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Good find.((site ) should be required reading ) Now you know why it's important to let your car warm up. Even if it's a just little bit.

    I'm sure Toyota set the bypass valve to pass 5 weight 30 oil at start up considering that is the recommended weight oil of a taco. We are not talking Ferrari's here, some engines may require vastly different oils.

    This site link should be a sticky. Oil 101:

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

    Choice quotes:

    Check mate.

    Another choice quote:

    Too bad his default oil was not 5w/30 for his discussions but it still gives you the idea.
     
  4. Jun 21, 2010 at 5:56 PM
    #44
    MassTaco

    MassTaco Well-Known Member

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    buddywh:

    Thank you for your posts. There was a significant amount of mis-information floating around in this thread, and you did a nice job of bringing out the facts. Well done!

    The 0w-XX designation is a bit counter-intuitive at first so getting the facts out is helpful.
     
  5. Jun 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM
    #45
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    0w/30 VS 5w/30 is probably to close to offer a advantage at normal temperatures. Start-up and running temps.

    The thing would be concerning to me would be is if there was additives added to make it 0w/30 from 5w/30. Additives get used up and that for me personally is why I will not use a blend. I see Mobil 1 makes a 0w/30 though so I'm assuming it's fully synthetic. Never used a oil so light on the winter side ever and have been almost to the north pole. I like the keep it plugged in idea better. Or keep it in a heated garage instead. It would make about 5 units of viscosity higher than 0w oil at 75 F, not going to break the bank. Too bad those pages don't go right down to the cold limits of those oils.

    If the question was instead use 5w30 normal oil compared to 0w/30 synthetic it would be a no brainer. I'd go with the synthetic.

    If the question was use a synthetic 5w/30 or a blended 0w/30 I'd go with the synthetic.

    The synthetic is the important thing. It's going to make the most difference.
     
  6. Jun 21, 2010 at 6:33 PM
    #46
    NAAC3TACO

    NAAC3TACO Middle aged member

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    Good point. If you compare a synthetic 5w30 to a conventional 5w30 in extremely cold temps, the synthetic 5w30 will flow much easier.
     
  7. Jun 21, 2010 at 7:07 PM
    #47
    Trap

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    If that guys numbers is to be believed then 5w/30 synthetic would be less honey like than 0w/30 blended at cold temperatures so my original assessment would be correct. Don't bother.
     
  8. Jun 21, 2010 at 8:37 PM
    #48
    Isthatahemi

    Isthatahemi Well-Known Member

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    0W30 is the only oil I have seen that pours properly when taken off the garage shelf at -28. Those who claim that 5W30 Mobil is almost the same, I can tell you below -25, there is a big difference in how they pour. 5W is like cool honey, 0W is like syrop.
     
  9. Jun 21, 2010 at 8:46 PM
    #49
    Trap

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    Yes but is yours fully synthetic? The OP was asking about a blended 0w/30 which would be hopefully the same but that is the problem cause it's a blend it will not stay that way. Where as the synthetic 5w/30 would not change over time.

    Don't count how it pours out of the bottle the real test is how it acts in the engine after use. If it's fully synthetic it probably is better in the cold. No argument here.
     
  10. Jun 22, 2010 at 5:11 AM
    #50
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    First thing to ask is what is being considered 'fully synthetic'? It's well understood that all "synthetic" oils are blends of group II, III, IV, V and/or mineral oil stocks. Even Amsoil has to have group III in their blend and maybe even mineral oils. No one knows and the manufacturers aren't telling...the only way they are inferring formulations of oils are through UOA's and how the oils behave in use.

    For Amsoil fans: why do they think Amsoil has grp III? because Group V (esters) are horrendously expensive and group IV won't dissolve anti-corrosive and detergent additive packs! if someone has proof otherwise: an email from Amsoil chemists maybe, saying "pure group IV and V" or somesuch...publish it....you'd be the hit of BITOG for sure!

    Point is: 'fully synthetic' is poorly defined, and you DON'T WANT pure PAO Group IV oil.

    If by additive you are referring to viscosity index improvers (VII's), they are indeed a problem and really only needed in mineral oils to achieve broad muli-grade properties. Quality synthetic blends like M1, Amsoil, Pennzoil Platinum don't rely on them, but from what I can tell do use them...how I'm not sure...more reading required!

    And then there is this: only synthetics come in 0w because (apparently) mineral oils cannot meet SAE grade and service requirements and UOA's suggest that 0W's have much higher percentages of group III and IV in the blend but still yet are a blend and may still include gp II! So: if you want 'fully synthetic' defined, I think saying '0w(anything) oil' is as good as any!

    Finally: 30 wt is 30 weight, they are all the same viscosity grade at 100c; else it could NOT carry the SAE grading of '30'. It's that simple. Mineral or synthetic; single grade or multi, all the same.

    None of this comes from anything I've done...only from reading Dr. Haas' articles and browsing posts on BITOG. There's a ton of information there...you only have to go read it if you doubt anything I'm saying.
     
  11. Jun 22, 2010 at 5:42 AM
    #51
    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

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    Trap where are you located?
     
  12. Jun 22, 2010 at 5:48 AM
    #52
    crf69

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    ummm yeah
    030 sig series for the motherfacking win!!!!! Mann filter 7500 mile/6mo.s yeeaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
     
  13. Jun 22, 2010 at 7:10 AM
    #53
    BlueT

    BlueT Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that is bad idea, Toyota in Europe sells premium oil labeled for heavy duty usage and the oil is re branded Shell 5w-40. It gets put in VVT-I engines as well and oil intervals are at 10 000 miles
    also 0W-40 has been used by FJ cruiser guys so I would not be first one. I am actually surprised that xx-40 is not mandatory on supercharged vehicles.
    As the viscosity goes I doubt there is a issue since almost every oil is different, and if engine has problems running 0w-40 at 14cst then I can only imgine what is happening inside the engine as it warms up. Somebody wrote not use use higher grade because VVT-i Well VVT-i uses valves that are adjusted by temp. Which means as the car ages those will go slowly out of specs. So there has to be some tolerance there. Since with time valve will be staying open more as it thinks temp is still lower hence expecting oil with higher viscosity to be there.

    0W-40 leaking and burning is personal account plus I know there are plenty of others that had the same issue. 0w-40 is a no problem on new vehicles but on older ones with some wear can turn vehicle to Exxon Valdez on wheels :D the good part no rodent wants to live in truck like this :laugh:
    Here is one of the many threads about 0W-40 ability to burn and leak

    http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/281932-high-consumption-m1-0w40-switch.html
    For more just do search and you will find it.
    I had been there and done that :cool:
     
  14. Jun 22, 2010 at 7:42 AM
    #54
    outlawtacoma

    outlawtacoma [OP] Well-Known Member

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    pretty sure I wasnt... Is Mobil1 0w-30 blended? I know some stuff came out that a while back about the tiers of their oil, but I cannot recall it. I may be wrong about M1 being full syn.
     
  15. Jun 22, 2010 at 7:47 AM
    #55
    NAAC3TACO

    NAAC3TACO Middle aged member

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    This thread has been informative, but kind of complicated. To answer the OP's original question, you can use 0w30 or 5w30 in the 4.0. Either weight will be fine. JMO.
     
  16. Jun 22, 2010 at 7:53 AM
    #56
    outlawtacoma

    outlawtacoma [OP] Well-Known Member

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    finally a straight answer!:eek:
     
  17. Jun 22, 2010 at 8:18 AM
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    buddywh1

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    I was responding more on principal than anything else.

    I know that if I were dragging a 20' travel trailer across the desert southwest for a summer vacation I'd go to 0w40, maybe even 5w50. There are situations where it's appropriate and the article says so.

    And while no one knows for a certainty, M1 is most likely a blend as is any premium synthetic.
     
  18. Jun 22, 2010 at 8:21 AM
    #58
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    LOL...true and I agree....I just feel compelled to support my opinion is all!
     
  19. Jun 22, 2010 at 8:26 AM
    #59
    NAAC3TACO

    NAAC3TACO Middle aged member

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    I have Dr. Haas' article saved and I've re-posted it several times on TW. It's good info that dispels many myths about oil viscosity. Good stuff.
     
  20. Jun 22, 2010 at 8:26 AM
    #60
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    The simplest answers are: Mobil 1 is probably blended and the Mobil 1 bottle is labeled "Fully Synthetic".

    What all that means is opinion because any premium synthetic is probably blended, it's important to know what's in the blend. And the term "full synthetic" is not defined anywhere. Different people have differing opinions on what full synthetic is to them.

    It's a complicated topic, but not overly complex, and things have changed radically in the last 10-15 years as motor oils have improved and specifications have evolved to allow for advanced formulations. That's why there's so much misinformation out there.
     

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