1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Toyota Tacoma Diesel Not Worth it Says Chief Engineer

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by replica9000, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. Feb 27, 2015 at 7:06 AM
    #81
    js312

    js312 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Member:
    #128076
    Messages:
    5,641
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    New England
    Vehicle:
    23 F150 PowerBoost Lariat 502a
    Husky Weatherbeaters, OEM Mud Guards, Wheel Well Liners, Bullet Spray-In Bed Liner, Gator Soft Tri-Fold Cover, Hankook DynaPro AT2 (Summer), Blizzak DM-V2 (Winter)
    In the days of the International T444e, sure. An inline 6 in a Peterbilt, sure. The little diesels overseas (line in the Hilux), maybe.

    But I doubt the smaller truck engines that need to meet newer emissions standards (Powerstrokes, Duramaxes) will do that without an overhaul somewhere along that time.
     
  2. Feb 27, 2015 at 7:37 AM
    #82
    taco206

    taco206 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Member:
    #48237
    Messages:
    973
    Gender:
    Male

    Why does a diesel necessarily need an overhaul? Just because? The new Isuzu/Utilimaster Reach van is not even considered a heavy duty engine and has B-10 durability ratings of 310,000 miles, meaning that 90 percent will reach that mileage before requiring an overhaul. And that's in a giant van truck that is designed for all day every day city driving abuse. Imagine if that engine was in a 4750 pound mid-size grocery getting truck.

    I've personally dealt with 500k+ mile Japanese diesels that never had any "overhauls". And we also dealt with near 400k mileage newer emission standard Japanese trucks with no "overhauls" either.


    Personally I've seen more threads about blown engines here on this forum than I saw at my shop. Whatever happened to that late model Tundra owner whos 4.0L disintegrated with under 100k miles?

    We're talking about 1 million miles here. Only the most hardcore semi tractors hit that. No modern car or truck is designed to do that and will never get close in normal driving. One guy hit 350k on his 4.0L Tacoma and all you guys went crazy. A small diesel will do that easily, seen it so many times. No need to even mention the word overhaul when talking about these new little diesels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  3. Feb 27, 2015 at 8:33 AM
    #83
    js312

    js312 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Member:
    #128076
    Messages:
    5,641
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    New England
    Vehicle:
    23 F150 PowerBoost Lariat 502a
    Husky Weatherbeaters, OEM Mud Guards, Wheel Well Liners, Bullet Spray-In Bed Liner, Gator Soft Tri-Fold Cover, Hankook DynaPro AT2 (Summer), Blizzak DM-V2 (Winter)
    I'm talking a million miles...that's who I replied to. Not 500k. Big difference.

    Hence my point, a PACCAR in a Peterbilt or a maybe a T444e will do that, a new Duramax or Powerstroke will probably not without an overhaul sometime before then.
     
  4. Feb 27, 2015 at 9:21 AM
    #84
    TacoJonn

    TacoJonn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Member:
    #118681
    Messages:
    3,842
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jon
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Vehicle:
    '13 DCLB Sport 4x4, '78 FJ40
    The thing is, GM and Nissan both have third party companies working on their Diesels (Isuzu and Cummins, respectively). These diesel specialists are better equipped to meet exhaust standards in a budget. Toyota certainly can engineer a good diesel but they'd rather focus their research and development in other areas.
     
  5. Feb 27, 2015 at 9:39 AM
    #85
    BDL5589

    BDL5589 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Member:
    #147199
    Messages:
    475
    Gender:
    Male
    NE Georgia
    Vehicle:
    '14 MGM 4WD RC
    I understand that Toyota is out to make money and may have deemed diesel too expensive. Thats perfectly understandable and no one (well, at least not me) is arguing that.

    But it's impossible not to admit that a small, clean, much more efficient diesel isn't completely possible and would be better suited to the tasks these trucks handle. VW and many other build them everyday. And will continue.

    Let's just all agree Toyota is being its typical over-cautious self because they'll sell either way. They aren't known for innovation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  6. Feb 27, 2015 at 10:00 AM
    #86
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Member:
    #71846
    Messages:
    10,792
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bill
    Navarre, FL
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma 4X4 AKA "Blue Beast"
    best wheel bearings around! www.marionbumper2bumper.com
    And 80% of the time percentage facts are made up.....lol

    Seriously though, you are WAY off on those numbers. You are just pulling numbers out of the air. I have worked in the auto repair industry for over 30 years. I have worked on diesels, as well as gasoline and hybrid technology, so yes, I know quite well about the engines, and their drawbacks. Look at Ford with the 6.0 Failstroke. They have had NIGHTMARES with the EGR coolers and oil pumps, as well as turbos. GM lost a butt load on their 6.6 LB7 Duramax and the cracked injectors. Their next LLY engine and their pressure regulators and water pump failures helped pay for part of my daughters college! I never worked on the Dodge diesels, but any Google search will bring up tons of problems. They are no more reliable than their gasoline counterparts, if you compare the number of failures per unit of production. Sure, you can show me your uncle or cousin, or best friend who owned one and has hundreds of thousands of miles on it without a problem....and I can show you work order after work order of THOUSANDS of dollars in just simple repairs that cover a vast range of diesel engines.

    Either way, Toyota does not feel that now is the right time to try and produce a diesel for the Tacoma. And I think they are right.
     
  7. Feb 27, 2015 at 10:10 AM
    #87
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Member:
    #113290
    Messages:
    18,199
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    I am Groot
    People's Democratic Republic of Canuckistan
    Vehicle:
    15 FoST
    Hino is the number one Diesel manufacturer in Asia if I remember correctly. So that statement is incorrect. Toyota has a company that would be eager to engineer a Diesel. At least as eager as Isuzu was for GM.
     
  8. Feb 27, 2015 at 10:50 AM
    #88
    Tideline

    Tideline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Member:
    #149714
    Messages:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    so, The D4D diesel sold in Toyotas all over the world from Australia to Asia to Africa to Europe

    it's not the right time to sell it in the USA

    Because it won't meet pollution standards in the USA ?
     
  9. Feb 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM
    #89
    neonlazer

    neonlazer Mechanically Goofy

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Member:
    #65333
    Messages:
    2,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Lafayette, LA
    Vehicle:
    '12 DCSB 4x4 SR5
    ^ Yea..exactly..or other retarded standards...
     
  10. Feb 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM
    #90
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Member:
    #113290
    Messages:
    18,199
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    I am Groot
    People's Democratic Republic of Canuckistan
    Vehicle:
    15 FoST
    More because it will cost a shit ton to bring it up to the emissions standards in North America, and those standards are likely to get more strict in the future with no clear path to making Diesels cleaner than they already are.
     
  11. Feb 27, 2015 at 12:46 PM
    #91
    Supra TT

    Supra TT Supercharged Lifter

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Member:
    #48645
    Messages:
    7,228
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Eric
    Indiana
    Vehicle:
    2000 SAS D60 F/R Supercharged
    Supercharged on One Tons
    Power jokes and durapads aren't real diesels. Stupid design from the get go. :rolleyes:

    Real diesels like you stated. Inline 6... Bread and butter. But really, all the new emission shit is a joke. I agree with it they won't last as long.

    I did make them numbers up lol. It was to get the point across. Once again powerfails and durafags are not diesels. They are gay vacuum cleaners. V8? Nice failed attempt at a real diesel... inline 6. I know they make other shit in diesel engines, but the inline 6 is bread n butter. Why else does every single semi run them.

    Toyota didn't offer a diesel so I moved on. Sure dodge has their issues... The issue is the transmission and the douchers running the chips on max. Why wouldn't it fail? Any chip can add up to 200 hp... I'd love to see a gas engine handle an extra 200 hp with zero mods done. 2jz don't count either... That bitch is magical. :D
     
  12. Feb 27, 2015 at 12:51 PM
    #92
    rcsb jon

    rcsb jon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Member:
    #143948
    Messages:
    1,023
    Gender:
    Male
    Pittsburgh
    Vehicle:
    '17 Ridgeline RTL-T | AWD | White | Ebony
    -WeatherTech liners
    You think your view is: :headbang:

    ...But in reality, it is::jerkoff:
     
  13. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:07 PM
    #93
    Chopper678

    Chopper678 Professional Threadjacker

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    Member:
    #58237
    Messages:
    10,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Devin
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    '07 SR5 PreRunner V6 DCSB
    5100s@0.85"+Eibachs, Toytec 2" AAL, Weathertech floor liners, WO seat covers, UltraGauge, ammo box mod
  14. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:11 PM
    #94
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Member:
    #113290
    Messages:
    18,199
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    I am Groot
    People's Democratic Republic of Canuckistan
    Vehicle:
    15 FoST
    You deserve some rep good sir!
     
  15. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:14 PM
    #95
    BDL5589

    BDL5589 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Member:
    #147199
    Messages:
    475
    Gender:
    Male
    NE Georgia
    Vehicle:
    '14 MGM 4WD RC
    If that's directed towards me, I never said they were especially clean (not especially dirty either), just that they can meet emissions.
     
  16. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM
    #96
    Flowin

    Flowin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Member:
    #117089
    Messages:
    5,487
    Gender:
    Male
    Acworth, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2014 DCSB TRD OFF ROAD
    OME 3" lift, 265/75/16 KO2s, 35% tint
    In Europe you can get almost any Toyota car with a diesel engine. But they also have the market/demand for that over there - in the US there's simply not a high enough demand for it yet so why bother selling one if only a few would buy it. :notsure:
     
  17. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:38 PM
    #97
    BDL5589

    BDL5589 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Member:
    #147199
    Messages:
    475
    Gender:
    Male
    NE Georgia
    Vehicle:
    '14 MGM 4WD RC
    You're right. But I personally believe that the reason the demand isn't there is because of the stigmas surrounding diesels. If everyone was able to sample a diesel in the same platform beside a similar gasoline engine, they'd be a lot of new opinions. I keep mentioning VW's TDI engines but just look at what a cult following they have. It's the same with old Mercs, Cummins, etc. Diesels usually win people over.
     
  18. Feb 27, 2015 at 1:58 PM
    #98
    taco206

    taco206 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Member:
    #48237
    Messages:
    973
    Gender:
    Male


    Very possible. The VW TDi example is true. My brothers 2002 Golf tdi 5-speed is a little freight train. Absolutely makes my 2000 Civic feel like a turd power wise. And pulls much harder and is quicker than my wifes 04 Accord I-4 with "160 hp". And it still pulls in 47-50 mpg per tank with 130k miles which is above the EPA ratings. Has come close to 55 mpg on highway runs and can run in 5th gear up just about any hill on the Washington freeways. Did 50 plus mpg with his wife and daughter from Edmonds-Spokane-Edmonds, WA all on one tank of fuel course. All in a 1.9L 8 valve car with "90 HP". Can your car do that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  19. Feb 27, 2015 at 2:10 PM
    #99
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Member:
    #113290
    Messages:
    18,199
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    I am Groot
    People's Democratic Republic of Canuckistan
    Vehicle:
    15 FoST
    My wife's Sonata gets 42 mpg average. That car pulls hard and is quite a bit bigger than a Golf. With the local station selling gasoline at $85.9/L (USD 2.57/US gallon) and Diesel at $113.9/L (USD 3.43/US gallon), it costs ~6.12 cents to run my wife's Sonata per mile and ~6.24 cents to run your buddies Golf under the best conditions.

    That's the problem with Diesel. Even if it gets 10 cents cheaper per liter you are still talking about a fraction of a penny difference in operating costs for fuel. Even at a full penny difference, and assuming a SMALL $2000 dollar markup for a Diesel vehicle, you would be talking about driving 200,000 miles before hitting the break even point.

    So yes, my wife's larger GDI gas job can run around like a Jetta and gets mileage to compete with it. It also needs no DEF or a particulate filter to get there, which are two components that I don't have to replace.
     
  20. Feb 27, 2015 at 2:21 PM
    #100
    taco206

    taco206 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Member:
    #48237
    Messages:
    973
    Gender:
    Male

    I don't know that much about the Hyundai offerings. Is the GDI the 2.0T that's rated at 21/32 mpg? How exactly is that car getting 17 mpg over the rated average?

    Help me out here, even the Sonata Hybrid is only rated at 40 mpg hwy. Also, you're assuming that your car is cheaper than a comparable new TDI Jetta which or may or may not be true depending on trim levels and such. And that your car won't have any issues ever and a diesel car with DPF will have nothing but issues. Sounds logical.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015

Products Discussed in

To Top