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Next Gen Tacoma - Does Toyota care about the 4 cylinder?

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Old 04-12-2011, 10:59 PM   #1
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Next Gen Tacoma - Does Toyota care about the 4 cylinder?

For those of you who are 4 cylinder fans, or perhaps you might have bought the 4 cylinder if it had a bit more power, or was in more models, I'm curious if you think when the next generation of Tacoma comes out, which I speculate will probably be a 2013 model, if Toyota will actually put out a 2.7+ 4 cylinder with equvilent technology as some of their current engines?

Currently, Toyota has 2 versions of the 2.7 liter. A car based front wheel drive engine that has I think it's 186 HP and 187 ft-lbs of torque with Dual VVT-i in some of their SUV's such as the Highlander, Venza, and the Mini-van the Sienna, and then they have the 2.7 liter in the Tacoma with Single (intake only) VVT-i, and 159 HP and 180 ft-lbs of torque. Currently, Toyota has seen significant success in the "take rate" with the beefier 4 cylinder option in said SUV/Minivans above with as high as 50% of the customers opting to get the 4 cylinder. I think a few things are helping this

1) Toyota has paired the 4 cylinder with the 6 speed auto, which will do wonders for keeping the engine in a more appropriate power band which will enhance response and mileage

2) Toyota seems to offer the 4 cylinder with lots of trim packages and options that the bigger V6 also has.

3) The beefier power of the 4 cylinder is more attractive for those on the fence who want fuel economy and/or who may not be towing or towing much.

Keep in mind that the Venza, Sienna, and Highlander are all also heavy vehicles. The Highlander is in the range of 3900 pounds, the Sienna 4 cylinder is around 4200 pounds. And I read a review of the Sienna 4 cylinder that said it had a zero to 60 time of 9.6 seconds, which, in my opinion isn't a rocket ship, but respectable. Many early to mid 2000 half ton trucks were in the range give or take.

So my question to you is this:

For the next generation Tacoma, do you think Toyota will make the 4 cylinder more attractive for those who maybe want a double cab 4x4, or will they limit it's options/models/breadth of its application to entry level 4x2 models and a few 4x4 models like they do now? Also, do you think they will at least give it one, if not 2 more transmission gears to give it a fighting chance?

Perhaps I have applied some of my opinion in the above, but jeesh - Toyota, get with the program. You pride yourself as a green car company, your trucks & SUV's reputations were built on the backs of underpowered 4 cylinders such as the 22RE that went forever on only 116 HP and 140 ft-lbs of torque moving 4000+ pound rigs all day.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:31 AM   #2
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I agree that Toyota (and all car makers) need to get with the program when it comes to fuel efficiency. I have recently been looking at new trucks and am unimpressed with the fuel milage. I currently drive a gmc duramax (diesel) for hauling and thought I would get a smaller run around truck but wanted 4 doors for family. There is no or very little savings in fuel milage from my current vehicle. They need to quit having power wars and start having mpg wars if you ask me.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:56 AM   #3
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Damn straight I would have gotten a 4-cylinder. I drove an 86 4Runner with a 22RE for 13 years. It was great .. bombproof. But I was in 3rd gear, floored at 40mpg going over any pass. I wanted a little more than that.

The 4-cylinder of today is much more powerful than my old 22RE, but the Tacoma is so much heavier now, too. They need to find a way to put it on a diet.

Plus the 4x4 4-cylinder really doesn't do that much better than the 4x4 V6 in the gas mileage department. Again, it's all that weight added with the additional drivetrain components. I think Toyota could definitely do better though. Yeah, it's a truck. But it doesn't have to be a hog.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainEarth View Post
Damn straight I would have gotten a 4-cylinder. I drove an 86 4Runner with a 22RE for 13 years. It was great .. bombproof. But I was in 3rd gear, floored at 40mpg going over any pass. I wanted a little more than that.

The 4-cylinder of today is much more powerful than my old 22RE, but the Tacoma is so much heavier now, too. They need to find a way to put it on a diet.

Plus the 4x4 4-cylinder really doesn't do that much better than the 4x4 V6 in the gas mileage department. Again, it's all that weight added with the additional drivetrain components. I think Toyota could definitely do better though. Yeah, it's a truck. But it doesn't have to be a hog.

i agree the old 4cly motors were bulletproof and got great mileage!

the problem here is all the new "saftey" features that toyota and other manufactures have to put on their products.
Case and point- i have a 1987 Honda CRX Si as my weekend fun driver, that car gets close to 40 mpg when its driven easy, now the new CR-Z gets similar mileage, and its 20 years newer, Why? its weight and gov. restrictions on the motors, you would think in 20 years we could do better on gas mileage and power as well.... guess not

if you drive the 4x4 4cly slow and go 65 on the interstate, i have been getting 26mpg easy out of my 2010 4x4 4 cly 5speed, the key is stay out of the gas, dont rev up to the sky to shift gears it has plenty of TQ to move it around, and coast where you can. You can get very good mileage out of the 4cyl trucks
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:41 AM   #5
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Scott,

I think Toyota cares a lot about the 4-bangers. In fact they are now available in some models that they weren't just a few years ago.

It was said on here a while ago that Toyota will probably update the 2TR that our vehicles use, instead of stuffing in the 4-banger used in the SUV and minivan aplications. Just someone's opinion, but it makes sense to me. I'd look for higher torque than the current 180/187 but for lower HP than the 186. I'm betting we'll see about 190-195ish on the torque and 165-175ish on the HP. Teaming that with a 6-speed auto I think you'd see a lot more people grabbing the 4-banger. Especially within the access cabs.

In fact, I think you'd see so many people grabbing the 4-banger (especially if it gets 10 percent better fuel economy or more), that the V6 would become more of a luxury item, with mostly only guys grabbing TRD models getting them. This would probably mean the majority of TW owners would still have the V6, but the majority of Tacoma owners as a whole would end up with the 4.

My idea for the Tacoma 2013 is to make it a hair smaller than the current model, or at least no bigger, make the frame and suspension a little stronger, and market it directly against full size trucks. With the next gen V6 (like in the V6 Tundra) HP is now at 270. With increased frame and suspension rigidness (as well as increased breaking ability), I think you could see tow rating for the V6 tow package models above 7,000 LBS, and payload ratings around 1500LBS. I've even thought of the slogan- "Tacoma, all you need, and then some!"
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:51 AM   #6
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As much as I'd like to see Toyota get serious about the 4 cyl in the Tacoma, I honestly think the only reason they offer it is for price advantage, not necessarily MPG advantage. By necessity, they need to keep the Tacoma reg cab 4 cyl, 2wd as cheap as possible to keep it a viable contender for fleet vehicle sales. They won't want to spend much on development for a truck they need to keep cheap. It would be nice if they had more powerful, technologically advanced 4 cyl. to offer as an option (or perhaps standard on a 4x4 or Prerunner model).
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #7
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Extra weight? I don't have figures to go on but my 07 access cab has a plastic bed. Where is the extra weight coming from? The bigger cab?
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:08 AM   #8
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Hybrid is a great idea, but I doubt that Toyota will adapt this technology to the Tacoma, especially the 4 cyl (my whole point once again about keeping the 4 cyl cheap). If they do anything hybrid, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Prius-based light duty truck (the ABAT comes to mind).
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
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LOL, I always laugh when I see the "Hybrid" Tahoes or whatever... what a waste. It's a "preppie" hybrid.
Can't agree with the Taco hybrid though. Hybrid is best served on a vehicle where it's built-in, not added on as an afterthought. I sure wouldn't be willing to spend an additional $5000 on a $20,000 truck for a system that will save me virtually $0 on the highway, and maybe give me an additional 5-8 mpg in the city. That's as laughable as the Tahoe hybrid.
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:16 PM   #10
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A few things:

1) The 1st gen tacoma (95-04) and the 2nd Gen Tacoma (05+) are noticeably different weight wise - around 300-400 pounds difference which is noticeable and probably negates the added power from the 3RZ-FE to the 2TR-FE from 1st to 2nd gen models.

2) There IS a noticeable different in fuel economy between the 4.0 V6 and the 2.7 liter 4 banger. Do not get caught up in the "one engine works harder versus one has an easier job." The 4 cylinder will always have a noticeable fuel economy advantage, when you consider engines of similar technology, than the V6. I don't think we need to do a poll to prove this.

3) It's great that someone could do with 30 HP less than the current 2TR-FE. I'd love to get back to the days of nostalgia. Perhaps it's not correct to say the 22RE was underpowered, more correct to say it had it's work cut out for it moving a 4000 +/- truck or SUV. No matter what your opinion of the current engine versus the 22RE or previous Toyota engines, to appeal to more of the masses, the current 2TR-FE 4 cylinder needs to be made more efficient - that means adding technology (e.g. Dual VVT-i) which will enhance both fuel economy and power at the same time and not neccessarily make it MORE capable, but make the capability more tolerable, if it's fair to say. Also, extra transmission gears, and an appropriate rear end ratio, on top of having appealing options comparable to most of what they offer with the V6 will increase the take rate of this engine. Keep in mind that we're not far off from INSANE fuel prices, and who knows if they are hear to stay. There are not going to be any real excuses to bring the fuel prices down with the economy on the rebound and all that. So when someone goes looking for a 4 cylinder Truck, Toyota had better have a competitive one.
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:20 PM   #11
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If did they nothing, but add direct injection (easy for them), raise the compression ratio a bit (easy for them) and add one more transmission gear (somewhat easy for them), there will be at least 3 more MPG in both city and highway conditions. Also, it would be slightly more powerful. I would seriously consider taking a hit on my loan and getting the new model.

I'm in favor of a slightly smaller DI turbo engine, as I said in another thread or two...
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:25 PM   #12
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Keep in mind this motor and the 4 cyl motors in general started it all for Toyota. This motor is a proven, iron block 4 cyl that will run a long time. I also understand the 3.0L diesel motor Toyota puts in the Hulix and other models, was developed and designed based on this motor. However, I would expect a new, higher performance and more fuel effecient motor if they go away from this motor with the Tacoma in the future. Also, expect upgrades with transmissions as well.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:33 PM   #13
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I think that they should spend their time on aerodynamics. With a good tailwind I can get 24mpg same when I am behind a full size pickup. If there was a way to make the Tacoma better in that department it would be money well spent by toyota.

BTW I understand it is a truck, but I bet they could do at least a little better.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:50 AM   #14
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Aerodynamic? For some reason the Dodge Rampage comes to mind.

Seriously, I think this segment of the VLT (Very Light Truck) market needs to be awakened again, but with mildly expanded capabilities and capacities. This would be a good alternative for those who want a good commuter vehicle and only occasional / limited need for a truck.

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Old 04-15-2011, 07:35 AM   #15
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In my mind the best thing Toyota could do right now is give the 4 banger a 6 speed manual transmission. I usually shift into 5th right at 50 MPH, and when I'm cruising at 65-70 my RPM's are well over 2k. If they simply added a 6th gear that was much more of an overdrive gear, it would be much easier to achieve 30 MPG's on the highway.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:11 AM   #16
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I need a SUPERCHARGER not a 6 speed; Damnit.


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Old 04-15-2011, 09:10 AM   #17
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I think they should remove the 4clyd from the Regular cab 4x4s and replace it with the V6. If they did this, we could easily see 2-3+MPG increases on the highway. Also, it would require little to no work from anyone at Toyota.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhk View Post
More power = more gas. That's the reverse of what they need to do. Make it SMALLER and more efficient.


I would suspect that the increased rate of 4-cyl in those types of vehicles as opposed to pickups has nothing to do with the power, and everything to do with the fact that the buyers simply don't care if it has 8 million HP.

The "typical" poser pickup buyer has this mistaken impression that having a larger engine is somehow better.


I would never buy an automatic. It would be nice to have an extra ratio to the 5-speed manual that is perhaps 15% higher than the existing 5th.


Possible, but personally, I don't have any interest in any of the tacoma 6-cyl-only options.


No interest in excess power. How does an extra 100 hp help you drive kids to soccer practice?


And neither they, nor a pickup, NEEDS to be a rocket ship.


- More transmission ratios would be a great help.
- I suspect that the engine isn't available for *all* configurations because Toyota understands that *most* (I wouldn't insult anyone by making blanket statements) of the people interested in certain configurations will be posers only interested in EXCESSIVE power.


I don't see any reason for you to be saying that the 116 hp 22re was underpowered. Let it work hard -- its an engine, that's what its for. If you don't work it as hard as it CAN work, then you're OVER powered. My personal opinion of the 2TR is that it is EXCESSIVE. I could do just fine with 30 hp less.


The difference is at least 20%. In my opinion, that is a HUGE difference.


Not quite. Though its true that in CITY driving, weight can have a great effect on fuel consumption, on the HIGHWAY, added weight is negligible. The real difference is the gear ratio and the stance. 4x4 is a taller truck, more wind resistance. It is also geared lower, so the engine spins faster when travelling at the same speed.

Note: the heavier the vehicle, the more dramatic the benefits of electric hybrid on city driving. At least when using regenerative braking. Maybe this would be a good idea! You could save a lot of people a lot of fuel with a little bit of light hybrid.
You are a crazy person.

Also, how is somebody a poser for wanting more power out of their TRUCK.

That's like saying you are a poser heterosexual if you like girls with bigger tits.

Get outta here with your terrible opinions that never add anything to threads.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:22 AM   #19
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The 5.0L, V8, in the new F150, is rated almost the same MPGs as the V6, 4.0L, Tacoma...
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:12 AM   #20
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I think they need to come out with a new model similar in size to the old pickup/1st gen taco. There's your MPG jump right there. There is definitely room in the market for both right now, IMHO.
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