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4 cylinder 2.7 liter DUAL-VVT-i

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Old 07-07-2011, 02:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedToy View Post
The problem is: the current 2TR is old technology. It is out of place in a world where half ton, V8 trucks, get 20+MPG (HWY.) I am for Toyota improving the 2TR, improving the transmission, etc, but the Tacoma is getting too big for such a small engine.
Those V-8's and EcoBoost V--6's in full size trucks really get 16-18 MPG in the real world at 75 MPH. Just go to a Ford forum, all kinds of disappointed owners. Yes, there are some that get the 22 or so MPG's on the highway, but they are not the majority. My neighbor has a F-150 with the new better MPG V-8 motor, and his UltraGauge show a 15.6 Ave MPG after 6 months of use. My 4 cyl Taco shows 25.1 Ave MPG since Xmas. At todays gas prices that represents about $18 if his F-150 got the same mileage for every 20 gallons of fuel.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08WhiteTaco View Post
Without looking it up or researching it I can tell ya with 100% certainty that 1AR-FE is made of aluminum. most modern engines are made of aluminum.

I absolutely hate aluminum, its weak and bolt holes strip way too easy on aluminum block. The car manufacturers love aluminum... It's light & cheap!
Aluminum is not cheap, but I definitely agree that it's way too easy to strip threads out of aluminum.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #23
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My friend had a 89 Mazda B2600 and my truck is like a rocket compared to that thing. He'd usually have to downshift all the way to 3rd on most hills out on the road. I've never had to downshift to anything lower than 4 on hills unless I am towing. This thing has plenty of power for my needs, moves the truck around just fine.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #24
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:45 AM   #25
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Whats the differences between the 1st gen 2.7 and the 2nd gen 2.7? Specs? etc. after searching the forum and google, it doesn't look like there's been much discussion. Was there any improvement?

Thanks!
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #26
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Sorry to dredge up a month-dead-thread, but....

Exhaust-only variable valve timing is not a performance trick, it's an emission trick. Think about it from the standpoint of what you can change by modifying exhaust valve timing without a corresponding mod to the intake valve timing:

1) Open the exhaust valve sooner - immediately begins dropping cylinder pressure, there goes torque.

2) Close the valve sooner - incomplete cylinder evacuation, now you have old stuff taking up space when the next intake cycle starts.

3) Open the valve later - the exhaust stroke ends up being a partial compression stroke until the valve opens. Another loss of power.

4) Close the valve later - the intake stroke begins drawing at least some burnt exhaust gas back into the cylinder through the open valve.


Using #1 or #3 above, you have a loss of power. We know the 2TR-FE is a little torque monster for its size, so these are almost certainly not what's going on.

However, #2 and #4 can be used to displace fresh air/fuel under given conditions. This is exactly what an Exhaust Gas Recirc (EGR) system does. And by using exhaust valve timing, rather than an external and easily defeatible EGR system, Toyota has ensured that the engine meets emissions requirements for as long as the system is installed and functional.

Now, when used with variable intake valve timing, there are a LOT more options. But modifying the "goes outs" timing without doing anything for the "goes ins" timings, isn't netting any power.

The preceeding has been my opinion. Take it for what it's worth, or what you paid for it, which ever makes you happier.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
Yeah, but it's a front wheel drive engine designed for a car chassis (unibody) that those vehicles have, designed to be mounted transversely to power a transaxle/transmission. Perhaps they could take that engine and mount it longitudally (orientation of the drive shaft relative to the length of vehicle) to power a transfer case/rear wheels but I would suspect they'd want to build an entirely different engine that is tuned/geared more towards truck like performance with more lower end torque, with probably different stroke versus bore diameters.
Just adding a bit of information here, but the front wheel drive engines are not selectively designed to run in ONLY a FWD chassis. The block can just as easily be installed in a RWD application. The only changes would be in intake and exhaust system routing.
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:40 PM   #28
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Good info...just wanted to add that I'm not touching another toyota 4 cylinder pickup until toyota at least does DVVT(preferably w/direct injection). The 2TR is just not enough of an improvement over my 3rz to warrant making payments on one.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #29
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As much as I love my truck, I would love to see them make a pickup smaller that the current Tacoma. I would buy it
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:21 PM   #30
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I like the size of the 2nd gens, at least with the lifted 4wd suspension. But a more powerfull motor getting the same mpg would definately be feasible and a nice addition to the 4cyl.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05RedTaco View Post
The 2tr-fe has square bore and stroke of 95mmx95mm with compression of 9.6:1, the 1ar-fe has bore of 90mm and stroke of 105mm and compression of 10.0:1.

Those number clearly suggests that these are two completely different engines even though the displacement is very similar.

What the Tacoma needs is torque and the 2tr-fe has 180lb-ft versus 182 and 186lb-ft...
When I see those compression ratios....I think of boost/turbocharging if only they would, which I think wouldn't be a bad idea
Them they can incorporate that into the little scions and a Camry sport or smaller displacement with a turbo still
I would love to see Toyota put a turbo on a few vehicles of theirs and see how they perform...
What if they made a Toyotaboost motor
A stronger 4.0 twin turbo in a tundra? Just makin up some ideas but I think it would definitely be cool if it would be effective
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordless View Post
Good info...just wanted to add that I'm not touching another toyota 4 cylinder pickup until toyota at least does DVVT(preferably w/direct injection). The 2TR is just not enough of an improvement over my 3rz to warrant making payments on one.
X2 if I buy another taco it will be a v6
Not gonna mess with another 4banger
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc98tacoma View Post
X2 if I buy another taco it will be a v6
Not gonna mess with another 4banger
I don't mind the 4 cylinder. They're cheaper to buy, maintain, and get better mileage. But I want toyota to actually come into the new millenum and offer DVVT on their 4 cylinder. I think pretty much every family sedan has a more powerful 4 cylinder. This is just toyota trying to keep costs down. But I'm not paying for a new truck if they're gonna be cheap.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordless View Post
I don't mind the 4 cylinder. They're cheaper to buy, maintain, and get better mileage. But I want toyota to actually come into the new millenum and offer DVVT on their 4 cylinder. I think pretty much every family sedan has a more powerful 4 cylinder. This is just toyota trying to keep costs down. But I'm not paying for a new truck if they're gonna be cheap.
I've got to agree. It's going to take a lot more for me than a new grill and interior.

They probably want that gap there since they've maintained it for a reason. They've expanded the 2.7 line because that's what the market wants. If you're into performance though it's probably their best upsell to the 4.0. I wish that wasn't the case.

I hope more and more aftermarket vendors capitalize on this and fill that gap.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:06 PM   #35
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http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06...es-needed.html

As I wrote in the comments as "VVTi", I think this is the change in tooling and increase in work force to support the 2015 Tacoma engines.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:05 PM   #36
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Diff between VVT-i and DUAL VVT-i

Finally, I think I found the answer in this post. Am I correct? "Dual" adds variable timing to the exhaust valves also.

Now, it late 2013. Been a Taco owner since the 70's. First one was the Hi-Lux 1 Ton. The enlargement of the chassis threw me for a loop. Gas prices going up and Toyota phases out their small truck. In 2011 it was new truck time. Passed 100K with '02 Taco. Was offered $9,000 cause it was so clean. In March of 2011 found a new 2010 FJ. Purchased it cause it did not require a new $1,800 camper shell. I was outside my budget already. And sales tax was $1,818! The 4.0 Dual VVT-i is powerful (compared to the previous four poppers). The mileage is better than the old 4 cylinder's at 21.5 overall. The reason I'd consider making a move now that the V6 has impressed me so is interior space. The FJ is so limited. Even with the back seat removed, I can't carry much. I camp and fish a LOT. Had to downsize all my gear. So, while my FJ is still worth a considerable amount, I'm just thinking about going back to a Tacoma. If it was the same "EXACT" motor, I'd do it in a heart beat. This thread answered my concern about the "Dual" thing. Is it a big deal? You tell me. Thank You!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
And with Dual VVT-i the current 2tr-fe would have MORE torque. Note that the 1ar-fe HAS Dual VVT-i where as the current 2tr-fe does NOT have dual VVT-i but instead single VVT-i (intake only). Thats the entire point of my thread - that assuming Toyota truck engines share the same displacement versus HP/TQ outputs versus technologies, that a new version of the 2tr-fe would have around 180-184 HP and 190+ ft-lbs of torque if it shared the same output as it's Toyota truck engine big brothers. But it's based on extrapolation/comparison. All we can do is hope that we see a beefed up 4 cylinder.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:16 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 91r100gs View Post
Those V-8's and EcoBoost V--6's in full size trucks really get 16-18 MPG in the real world at 75 MPH. Just go to a Ford forum, all kinds of disappointed owners. Yes, there are some that get the 22 or so MPG's on the highway, but they are not the majority. My neighbor has a F-150 with the new better MPG V-8 motor, and his UltraGauge show a 15.6 Ave MPG after 6 months of use. My 4 cyl Taco shows 25.1 Ave MPG since Xmas. At todays gas prices that represents about $18 if his F-150 got the same mileage for every 20 gallons of fuel.

I'm satisfied with the mileage with my 2.7 2TR. The worst I've gotten so far is 20 mpg on winter blend with a fully loaded truck crawling up and down steep narrow canyon roads in first gear. And the best I've gotten is 29 mpg on summer blend freeway driving.


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Old 12-16-2013, 06:59 AM   #38
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:36 AM   #39
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rpriest500

"Dual" variable valve timing means that both the intake and exhaust sides have the ability to modify the timing.

In the case of the 2TR-FE, we're single variable cam timing, only on the exhaust cam. This allows a very flat torque curve.

Adding variable valve timing to the intake cam would typically add a little power, but comes at a weight and complexity penalty.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:40 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lwb053 View Post
rpriest500

"Dual" variable valve timing means that both the intake and exhaust sides have the ability to modify the timing.

In the case of the 2TR-FE, we're single variable cam timing, only on the exhaust cam. This allows a very flat torque curve.

Adding variable valve timing to the intake cam would typically add a little power, but comes at a weight and complexity penalty.


That all sounds good except the VVT is on the intake cam on the 2TR. Also any other engine with Single VVT will have it on the intake cam. It's REAL OLD tech. As in my 93 VG30DETT Nissan 300zx engine has it and that was the 3rd year of it. It's more basic but it has it.
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