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can valves be adjusted on 2.7 with 200,000 ?

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Old 12-02-2011, 08:54 PM   #1
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can valves be adjusted on 2.7 with 200,000 ?

98 taco 4x4 cold stalls
runs Ok otherwise, slight rough idle, just Ok power, 21 mpg
replaced or checked all engine control systems from the ECM to the fuel pump

the concensus is that it needs valves
dealer mech said compression is : #1-140/#2-150/#3-180/#4-190
valves are tight
three toyo mechanics at three dealers say that the valves on a toyota 2.7 cannot be adjusted
when I ask why they just shrug and say they cant

my manual shows the proceedure for adjusting the shim and bucket mess

will it cause any problems at 202,000 miles ?
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:26 PM   #2
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Maybe check a head shop for prices on valve jobs. A long while back I got one for $250. Probably a lot more now.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustrider View Post
98 taco 4x4 cold stalls
runs Ok otherwise, slight rough idle, just Ok power, 21 mpg
replaced or checked all engine control systems from the ECM to the fuel pump

the concensus is that it needs valves
dealer mech said compression is : #1-140/#2-150/#3-180/#4-190
valves are tight
three toyo mechanics at three dealers say that the valves on a toyota 2.7 cannot be adjusted
when I ask why they just shrug and say they cant

my manual shows the proceedure for adjusting the shim and bucket mess

will it cause any problems at 202,000 miles ?
you can adjust them as far as I know. You just need to know how far out of tolerance they are, and order the correct thickness shims to make up for it. Only thing is the valves have to be removed from the head.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustrider View Post
98 taco 4x4 cold stalls
runs Ok otherwise, slight rough idle, just Ok power, 21 mpg
replaced or checked all engine control systems from the ECM to the fuel pump

the concensus is that it needs valves
dealer mech said compression is : #1-140/#2-150/#3-180/#4-190
valves are tight
three toyo mechanics at three dealers say that the valves on a toyota 2.7 cannot be adjusted
when I ask why they just shrug and say they cant

my manual shows the proceedure for adjusting the shim and bucket mess

will it cause any problems at 202,000 miles ?
I haven't done it on a 2.7, or anything else that is shim adjusted, but I am sure it's just a matter of following the procedure in the book. It won't hurt the motor to get the valve clearance back in spec, and it might even out the compression.

I had a 22R in my 86 Toyota truck that I had a rebuilt engine installed in. It idled rough, they guy who adjusted the valves had them way too tight. I had one cylinder with 150psi compression, the others were all at 180psi. Once I figured out the valve clearance was almost zero and had them adjusted, the motor smoothed out and the compression was 180 on all four.

The only question is whether or not you have already burned a valve from running them too tight.

Good luck. And you might want to find another mechanic if you don't do this yourself. These guys are either miss informed, or they don't feel like dealing with the shim and bucket "mess".
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:10 AM   #5
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shim and bucket
install thinner shim to let the valve close
valves get tuliped from overrevving on high compression engines
previous owner probably like revving

the factory toyota manual I have says there is a SST (special service tool) to pry down on the bucket and remove the shim with a magnet (without removing the cam )
but common sense tells me it would have to be done NOT at TDC or it could bend the valve stem if it hits the piston when prying down
although the adjustment must be done at TDC valves shut ,
I suppose another tragedy could occurr if a keeper popped out while removing a shim
so maybe it would be safer to remove the cams

I do it on my motorcycle with shim and bucket , usually just need checked because I am a low revver
I got a riding buddy who is a successful MC mechanic with his own shop and when nobodys looking he sands the shims down instead of using up the overpriced new ones
shim and bucket valve adjustment on a motorcycle is almost $1,000

Then as a consumer of service product, I cant understand why 3 toyota dealer mechanics said the 2.7 valves are not adjustable and it needs the $2000 valve job [/sarcasm]
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:25 PM   #6
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The older 2.7 (3RZ-FE) engine has (which is what your engine should be) has a shim and bucket valve train, which is adjustable by changing the shims. The valve lash can be checked to see if it's correct by removing the valve cover and following the proper procedure.

The newer 2.7 (2TR-FE) engine has roller cam followers, and automatic hydraulic lash adjusters, and is NOT manually adjustable. I think some of the mechanics giving you advice are confusing the two.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:18 AM   #7
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and I dont see why there would be a problem with adjusting them even if they are tuliped real bad
I have changed valves on my motorcycle motor that were so bad you could use them for a pizza cutter and they never came apart

major problem I could forsee is running out of room for adjustment

i have not yet heard of running a valve so far mushroomed into the seat that it starts to disentegrate but I suppose it could
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustrider View Post
and I dont see why there would be a problem with adjusting them even if they are tuliped real bad
I have changed valves on my motorcycle motor that were so bad you could use them for a pizza cutter and they never came apart

major problem I could forsee is running out of room for adjustment

i have not yet heard of running a valve so far mushroomed into the seat that it starts to disentegrate but I suppose it could
Well generally once they start to wear the adjustment quickly changes. So you'll probably have to adjust them again in about 10k miles if they're really bad.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:43 PM   #9
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I pulled the head off and the valves dont look too bad
not bad at all
#1 intakes look a little dirty but they are holding liquid
I was expecting to find something obvious

what the hell
now I am confused AND pissed
?????

tore off the head on 2 mechanics diagnostic advice
and the valves dont look too bad
hard to believe valves can look this good at 202,000 but make it stall ?

Im about ready to scream if I took the head off after all this for no reason and nobody can figure out why it stalls
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:29 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=
dealer mech said compression is : #1-140/#2-150/#3-180/#4-190
valves are tight
[/QUOTE]

Possible leaking head gasket between #1 and 2?

Have you removed the valve train parts that would put pressure on the valves at this point? If you have, then maybe it IS just an adjustment issue.

Edit: Was this engine leak down tested before you took it apart? Maybe your rings are worn?

At 200K it could be a fuel injection issue too I suppose.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:32 PM   #11
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close inspection sees the valves are not great but I have seen worse
several valves have zero clearance some have .0015
seats look nasty and some stems wobble when the valve is open
two valves have some uneven erosion on the outer edge

maybe I am just not realizing how bad these valves are but
I was actually hoping to see something more obvious

I put a straight edge on the head and block with a flashlight behind and cant see a measurable gap at all

no obvious breaks in the head gasket marks to indicate a leak

I was burning NO oil so I am thinking the cylinders are good

didnt do a leakdown

I guess the best option is to get head redone and reassemble

if the problem is still there then I'll replace the injectors which are about the only components not yet replaced

all the plugs are a nice brown color
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustrider View Post
close inspection sees the valves are not great but I have seen worse
several valves have zero clearance some have .0015
seats look nasty and some stems wobble when the valve is open
two valves have some uneven erosion on the outer edge

maybe I am just not realizing how bad these valves are but
I was actually hoping to see something more obvious

I put a straight edge on the head and block with a flashlight behind and cant see a measurable gap at all

no obvious breaks in the head gasket marks to indicate a leak

I was burning NO oil so I am thinking the cylinders are good

didnt do a leakdown

I guess the best option is to get head redone and reassemble

if the problem is still there then I'll replace the injectors which are about the only components not yet replaced

all the plugs are a nice brown color
My compression #'s looked like yours and it idled rough cuz i had two shrunken exhaust valves. Re-built head and got two new valves and she's good as new, also had head guy grind down valve stems/lifter buckets to get proper shim tolerance in lieu of re-shimming.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:11 PM   #13
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put the new head on and it fired right up
NO MORE cold stall
no more "EGR type stumble"
idles higher and IDLES real smooth
about 25% more power too

worked out some bugs and did a 200 mile shakedown

I just refused to believe bad valves would act like that


THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP EVERYONE
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustrider View Post
put the new head on and it fired right up
NO MORE cold stall
no more "EGR type stumble"
idles higher and IDLES real smooth
about 25% more power too

worked out some bugs and did a 200 mile shakedown

I just refused to believe bad valves would act like that


THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP EVERYONE
nice, love it when that shit pays off.
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