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Old 05-17-2012, 01:00 PM   #1
xcheese1 [OP] xcheese1 is offline
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auto vs manual

so i know there is all of this talk about how the auto i4 2nd gen is more sluggish than the manual but does anybody have anything to back this up? 0-60 times or even a video accelerating from standstill. i just had a friend with a prerunner i4 manual say that my 4x4 access cab auto seemed faster...
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:06 PM   #2
"Pick up some speed.. You'll make it."
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Couldn't you drive both? Are they similar years/body etc?
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:50 PM   #3
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no unfortunately he lives out of state and was just visiting. though it would be an interesting thread for everybody too. i definitely want to though!
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
"Pick up some speed.. You'll make it."
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General consensus is that the lack of "power" from the AT is that it inconveniently decides when to shift, with the MT you can control when to shift at low rpms for daily driving and when the higher are advantageous (passing, etc). It's not that either is faster, better, has more horses engine wise.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:41 PM   #5
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I drive a Manual 2nd Gen. Off of the line it is anything but quick. If you are lookin for somethin sporty, you will want to consider somethin else.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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I have driven both, neither are what you would call quick.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:14 PM   #7
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In the end these are bricks.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:54 PM   #8
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I have the double cab auto, and I recorded a 0-60 (up a slight hill) at 13.7 seconds
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:15 AM   #9
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It comes down to what you want to do with the vehicle. I have owned several V8/manual cars that were quick (for street cars). But when I bought this Tacoma I wanted a reliable light truck that was decent on gas and wouldn't require much wrenching or maintainence for a long time and it fits that bill perfectly. Quick wasn't what I Was looking for.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
In the end these are bricks.
Just how, exactly, does your comment help the discussion?
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:08 AM   #11
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I have an '05 base model 4x4 manual, neighbor has an '05 base model 4x2 auto. Both stock. Manual is MUCH snappier
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcheese1 View Post
so i know there is all of this talk about how the auto i4 2nd gen is more sluggish than the manual but does anybody have anything to back this up? 0-60 times or even a video accelerating from standstill. i just had a friend with a prerunner i4 manual say that my 4x4 access cab auto seemed faster...
The real answer is the torque converter. When unlocked, a torque converter will rob you of power. On these transmissions, I believe that the torque converter will only lock up in 4th at cruising throttle. Maybe 3rd, not certain.

The other issue involves the available gear ratios;
Automatic: 2.804, 1.531, 1.000, 0.705
Manual: 3.954, 2.062, 1.436, 1.000, 0.805

You will note the massive difference in the 1st gear ratio.

Now as far as the 'seat of the pants' feel goes, a very low first gear ratio can actually slow you down. If you look at the first gear ratio of a performance car, it will probably more closely resemble the automatic.

On the manual, 1st gear will get you rolling, second will rocket you to 90kph/55mph, and 3rd will run you as fast as you could practically ever want to go. On the automatic, you will get more substantial acceleration while still in first to about 60kph/37.5mph, then you've got 2nd from there to highway speed.

On the manual, for passing, you get your choice of 1.436 or 1.000. With the automatic, you have 1.531 and1.000.

Now the tradeoff here, is that the manual will be slower to get rolling, but better off once it is.

On top of that, you have to consider the effects of carrying a payload. The manual, though possibly slower at the low end, has 41% higher take-off torque. That means that when you're under load, it has the clear advantage.

Finally, look at the issue of heat. The torque destroyer (aka converter), destroys torque by converting it into heat. Heat makes things break.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyowill View Post
I have an '05 base model 4x4 manual, neighbor has an '05 base model 4x2 auto. Both stock. Manual is MUCH snappier
Don't forget that he has different axle ratio than you....
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
Just how, exactly, does your comment help the discussion?
Sounds like he is worried about acceleration. No need to worry since they are both slow as shit.





Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
Don't forget that he has different axle ratio than you....
2nd gen 4 bamgers only have one rear axle ratio. 4.10.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Sounds like he is worried about acceleration. No need to worry since they are both slow as shit.
That would be a matter of perspective. Again though, you aren't adding to this thread.

Quote:
2nd gen 4 bamgers only have one rear axle ratio. 4.10.
You really should look into that a bit more. 4.1 ratio only applies to prerunner/4x4. The base model 4x2's have either 3.307 (MT) or 3.583 (AT).
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
That would be a matter of perspective. Again though, you aren't adding to this thread.
Well that's my perspective.

Yes and you are adding great info by trying to drive me away or something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
You really should look into that a bit more. 4.1 ratio only applies to prerunner/4x4. The base model 4x2's have either 3.307 (MT) or 3.583 (AT).
As far as I know the 4 bangers only come with 4.10s. The tranny ratios are different. Any info on this "new" ratio?
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Well that's my perspective.

Yes and you are adding great info by trying to drive me away or something.
Look, pal... you don't even HAVE a 4-cyl, so your opinions are meaningless with respect to them. What I am suggesting is simply that if you don't have anything useful to add, then don't bother adding anything. Especially don't add incorrect information -- that doesn't help anyone.

Quote:
As far as I know the 4 bangers only come with 4.10s. The tranny ratios are different. Any info on this "new" ratio?
Your lack of knowledge is reason enough for you not to be here. Ther is nothing new about these ratios, they have been used in base model 4 cyls since 2005. Nothing has changed. You're welcome not to believe me, but before you say anything hasty, go over to toyota.com and have a look at the axle ratios. They're listed under specifications/dimensions at the bottom.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
Look, pal... you don't even HAVE a 4-cyl, so your opinions are meaningless with respect to them. What I am suggesting is simply that if you don't have anything useful to add, then don't bother adding anything. Especially don't add incorrect information -- that doesn't help anyone.
Well again you saying anything about my opinion isn't helping anyone. If you don't like it then don't read but your eballs are swelling today. If you don't have anything useful to say then you should just move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
Your lack of knowledge is reason enough for you not to be here. Ther is nothing new about these ratios, they have been used in base model 4 cyls since 2005. Nothing has changed. You're welcome not to believe me, but before you say anything hasty, go over to toyota.com and have a look at the axle ratios. They're listed under specifications/dimensions at the bottom.
I'll check later. If I'm wrong then too bad so sad for me and ecookie for you.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Well again you saying anything about my opinion isn't helping anyone. If you don't like it then don't read but your eballs are swelling today. If you don't have anything useful to say then you should just move on.

I'll check later. If I'm wrong then too bad so sad for me and ecookie for you.
Why you

???
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:39 AM   #20
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I take that back, you obviously do have a 4-cyl....
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